Lyle Bignon

This transcript is auto-generated and may contain errors. Tap a timestamp to jump the video.

0:00 I recall seeing crime scenes wherepeople had been murdered the nightbefore, very dangerous in parts.Attention deficit hyperactivitydisorder, it's a double-edged sword.Comes with some really great superpowerswhere I can do 3 days worth of work in 1day. There'll be a crash. I am superempathetic. I can talk over people.Don't wait for somebody else to createit. Don't wait for somebody else tomagic up that job. Make it yourself.>> Welcome once again to our lives, ourstories, where we delve deeply into thelife and the story of the person I'mchatting with. And today, it's a mancalled Lyle Binyon. Though young, he'smade a big mark on Birmingham. He is the

0:43 nighttime economy ambassador forBirmingham, but he's more than that.He's a media fixer. He's a PRconsultant. He's a man of music. So,Lyle, welcome to the show.>> Thank you for having me, Carl. It'sgreat to be here with you.>> Now, lots to talk about here. And one ofthe things I want to pick up in a bit isthat to me, all the roles that you'vegot, there seems to be one commonthread, music. And we'll come to that ina moment, but let me take you back toyour childhood, to growing up, LyleBinyon, the name. Come on, let's getback.>> Day one, I guess. Born in Good HopeHospital over in Sutton Coldfield.Um spent my early months in Handsworth.Uh with my mom and dad. And um

1:28 we settled in Castle Heath um where Ispent most of my my early years and thenmy my teenage years. Parents are Irish,French. They met here in Birmingham. So,I'm third generation Irish, secondgeneration French, uh first generationBrummie.>> Very good. I like the whole lot of thattogether. Tell me about where you grewup in Castle Heath.>> 1980sum inner city Birmingham. Looking backon it now, a very challenging area inlots of ways. In many of the ways therewas a real sense of community. I'mforever grateful for um having theopportunity to grow up in that areabecausewe had neighbors that were Bangla,Jamaican, Irish, Yemeni, Kashmiri,

2:12 Punjabi,um from across the Caribbean, fromacross the the East and South Asia.And so, on the street,at school, at nursery at school, I wassurrounded bypeople from many different cultures, ofmany different religions,andI would not change that for the world.It's really given me this incrediblehunger for other worldly experiences.>> To understand the rest of the world.>> Yeah, it wasn't a white working-classarea as other parts of Birminghamwere and still are. Um although therewas a a heavyuh population of Irish working-classthat had settled there

2:56 um many decades before me, including mygrandparents. But at the same time, youknow, Windrush generationum Indian and Pakistani migrants um madetheir way to that area.>> And also older English families, mainlyelderly by then. The youngsters hadmoved out.>> Definitely a generational settling ofthat area. So, really made for anincredibleexperience. Although at the time, youknow, there were there were lots ofchallenges around crime. It was ared-light district. There were There wasa heroin epidemic there. I recall seeingcrime scenes where people had beenmurdered the night before.Um and it was generally viewed certainparts of Balsall Heath were generally

3:38 viewed as ayou know, umvery deprived and very dangerous inparts.>> And this is part of the problem whenoutsiders look in at a district likeBalsall Heath as it was in the '80s,it was seen as the red-light district ofBirmingham, a dangerous area, but thisas you made the point really stronglywithin that, there's another BalsallHeath, a more positive Balsall Heath.>> Yeah, and I think that's the same forany area, whether it's, you know, downat heel, perceived as down at heel or orotherwise, there are always peopletrying to find their way through. Thereare always people that come together tomake a better lifeum for themselves, for their neighbors,for their kids.And there was definitely a sense to

4:20 that, you know, the division that we wemight be experiencing in the world todayand in the country todaydidn't feel anywhere near as apparentthere. And this was, you know, the headydays of NF and such as Britain. AndI'm sure that existed, but through mychild child-like eyes, you know, it wasa playground.>> You mentioned your mom's mom and dad,your grandparents came to Balsall Heath.Would that be like the late '40s, early'50s?>> Early '50s. So, my grandad came overfirst, um moved between Birmingham andCoventry. He was a Dublin man fromCabra, worked in lots of lots of jobs,factories, Leyland, um Valor. And thenmy gran came overuh afterwith before they'd met with my uh

5:04 grandad's sister.And as was the way then, you know, umparticularlyfor for Irish immigrants who had come tothe UK, is they stuck together, theywent to dances together, they you know,they they shopped together, they theyvery much were were a community thatmoved from Ireland and stayed acommunity. And then eventually my granand grandad, Mary and Michael, gotmarried. And initially, that's wherethey both had digs in Balsall Heath.They got married at St. George and umSt. John and and St. Martin'son um George Street,which is at the back of the house that Igrew up. And then settled in theBromford, um which is where the the kind

5:47 of family story really started.>> Your mom grew up in the Bromford.>> Yes.>> Which is a big post-war council estateon the north side of Birmingham.>> Yeah, kind ofborders with Shard End, with WaterOrton.And I spent a lot of time there as akid, probably 50% of my time. I wasreally close to my gran and granddad.Carry them in my heart every day. Andhave so many fun memories, but it wasessentially an Irish home. And there wasthere was a big Irish community over onon the Bromford as well. So St.Wilfrid's and some of the communitiesaround there.Again, that community notion. And and soeven though I have French heritage frommy dad's side,I also

6:30 spent a lot of time with the with the1980s and 1990s cultural traditions andand so on.>> I worked in Sparkbrook. My dad's familywas Sparkbrook. The both of these partsof Sparkbrook we always called itSparkbrook. I drank in the Royal Oak,the Gate, all Irish pubs. There was alot of more insular for the olderpeople. They they read Irish newspapers.They bought the local regional paper forwhere they came from. They listened toRT on the radio. Then Irishness seemedtobreak away from the horrors of the pubbombings and afterwards. And in the1990s this big expansion of Irishnessbecame much more positive, didn't it?>> I think yeah, put it into context thatthe generations that A lived through the

7:14 troubles either in Northern Ireland inthe Republic of Ireland or in the UK.The challenges that they had and mygranddad was subject to a lot of abuseand harassment anddifficulties around the time of theBirminghampub bombings.That actually there's probably a notionof of being breaking free from that. Butalso there's as you as you well knowcalledsubsequent generations do tend toto assimilate or or integrate in partand and there's obviously generationsthat have have been here for decades anddecades and it's it's natural I thinkthatyou knowuhthe ways of the old country to minglewith with you know the country that you

7:56 live in.>> Your grandad was from Cabra?>> Yeah.>> What about your your grandmother?>> Her family originally from Kilkenny butumuh seven of her siblings and they livedin a small terraced house in LoganStreet just kind of at the back ofSmithfield around the corner from theJamesonDistillery and I've been to to see theoutside of the house and it's tiny.It's incredible to to think of of thedifferences and the privileges and andthe the you know the changes in qualityof life that we have now.Um and I really am grateful foreverything that they did you know thosegenerations they worked harder thanwe'll ever know. It was very much umuh slum conditions

8:40 many decades before my grandparentswould would have been in Dublin.Not to say that the conditions I livedin were good by today's standards butI'm incredible place full of history. Iyou know I I I love Dublin to its coreit's a very different city now but youcan still find glimpses of that oldDublin.>> Going to Dublin regularly be married tohim a Dubliner.I feel that Dublin city center isbecoming like Berlin a city center andlike all the other big towns and citiesgentrified and the working class arebeing pushed out further and further.>> We're seeing it all around us um and Ithink you know this is why you'reso important Colm the work that you dois that it's important to haveflag bearers

9:22 people that are constantly championingit's not just about nostalgia andheritageit's a understanding you you know thejourney that you've come on andrelating that to to to where youcurrently are and I think you knowDublin has got so many uhfond memories for me, not just Dublin,butsurrounding areas, Wicklow,Kilkenny as well.>> Did you spend much time in Dublin as akid?>> We'd go on summer holidays there and andvisit family.But most of the family had relocated tothe UK anyway. I mean, we had some mygrand sister Bridie and her husbandMikey and and their family.Um that we'd we'd see and

10:08 you know, I've got a wholea whole slew of cousins over there. Andsecond cousins and the like.I think one thing that I'm reallygrateful to particularly to my mom foris she introduced me to to Dublin andIreland at quite a young age andyou know, it's a reference point for herand then became a reference point forme.And I had my own love affair with withDublin as a result, particularly in myteenage years.Um I discovered some of the music andartists and albums that have set kind ofset my careeruh course. Actually discovered that inDublin.>> Tell me about them.>> Yeah, I was probably like 15, 16 andyou know, that age you don't want to be

10:49 hanging around with your with yourparents, with your family. You want tobe out on your adventure. I'd get thebus into into Dublin. This is likemid-90s.And just mooching around. This isbefore Temple Bar was completelyredeveloped and and electrified.And there's there was a record storethere that had loads of bootleg tapeson racks outside the front on the keysalongside the Liffey.AndumI picked up a Clash bootleg tape. Andobviously bootleg tapes are illegal. Youshouldn't really be selling them, butpicked up one of those and then also aThin Lizzy tape.This is pre-internet days.Didn't really know that much abouteither bands, but was starting to getinto my kind of angry young man phase

11:34 and and rock and and punk.And and it turns out that one of myuh cousins was the original drummer inThin Lizzy.And it the place that we were staying inFoxrock, which was his place while hewas away, actually had his drum kit fromthat.>> Oh, really?>> Yeah, Derek. Hope I've got that storyright because that's what the the familybeen repeating for a while. But um andthat just led me on to a voyage ofdiscovery and and you know, I justgetting lost in in music and andfinding what what were already classicalbums andyou know,making my own way through them andwhich led me on to playing guitar, whichled me on to, you know, writing aboutmusic.>> So, before we go into the music in more

12:16 detail, you said your dad was French.Where was he from?>> It's from an area called Mayenne, whichis just above the Loire Valley.>> Right.>> A small city called Laval, which is inmany ways like Birmingham.Post-industrial. Very much a place wherepeople settle and it's kind ofintergenerational.Uh incredible countryside. A lovelyquaint kind of city center with a riverrunning through it.Famous for Henri Rousseau,the painter.>> Really?>> So, he came from Laval.>> What was your dad doing in Birmingham?There weren't many French people inBritain.>> He was a piano tunerand piano restorer.Um and was here on work. I can'tremember the circumstances around it.But it eventually led to him He he came

13:00 over with a friend of his who also endedup settling here andum meeting a partner and starting afamily and shout out to Julian and andCo. We're still in touch.And then my dad my dad went on his ownjourney throughhis career through music.Um and became a luthier.>> What's that?>> That is person that makes stringedinstruments.>> Really?>> He made violins, cellos, double basses,guitars, repaired them, restored them.So, had customers from the CBSO,Nigel Kennedy, etc. Umtrained underuha group of people.And um so, there's a lot of my earlymemories being in workshops, being

13:44 around string strings players. Cello isstill my favorite instrument or thefavorite tone and sound. Umand also around the trad Irish scene.So, uh an another facet to to mykind of musical exploration.>> Before we move on to the Irish tradscene, cuz there's a a person that weboth want to pay tribute to,a man called Pat Molloy, we'll come backto that in a second. But, where was yourdad's workshop and do you got memoriesof it?>> Yes, so um he after he'd completed histraining and worked for forother luthiersuh or workshops, um he set up inStratford House, which is aElizabethan Tudor building in umHighgate.

14:27 >> At the top of Camden Town.>> dates back to 1601.>> Yeah.>> Incredible building and I remembervividly the smell of it in thethe cellar, really spooky. His workshopwas right at the top floor and in therest of the building was NetworkRecords, um which is whereas I don't know, maybe a five orsix-year-old, I first met John Mostyn,who's has become aa dear friend and and uh who I've workedwith on on many an occasion.>> What was he famous for?>> John was manager of Fine YoungCannibals, The Beat, did some work withThe Specials early on as well, and umjust a a very well-experienced,well-known music industry professional.>> So, you go to see your dad

15:09 during the school holidays or beingtaken with your dad, you're goingthrough John Mostyn's area.>> Yeah.>> Music everywhere.>> Creaky stairs.>> And anybody else there?>> So, John Mostyn was working with NeilRushton, who is a very well-knownNorthern Soul DJ and records label execand those guys who were working withAlternate were really important in theemergence of like electronic musicculture. They're from Staffordshire andI just rememberbeing around the dust masks whichAlternate were were became famous for.Um I still got cassette tapes in mycollection that were being thrown awayby Network Records and I dare saythere's a few gems in there, some demosand from you know big Chicago Detroitproducers cuz at that time electronic

15:53 music this is we're talking 88 89electronic music was just really makingthe the kind of jump toto the UK and and hitting the charts. Itwas the the beginning of a counterculture. So I didn't know it at the timebut wondering through you know thesethese stacks of cassettes and dust masksand creaky stairs for promotional Yeahit was a really weird juxtaposition. Itsticks out. Uh lots of weird andwonderful characters thatpassed through the doors of thatbuilding and yeah it's a it's incredibleto see it inrelatively good condition still.>> Just before we move on lutier would thatcome from making loots originally do youthink?>> Yes. Yeah.>> I was thinking me French there I got itout of my childhood in my>> We'll do we'll do a couple of minutes in

16:34 the end in French in complete French.When you do French you do>> [laughter]>> No music's everywhere you you've got itin Dublin with your dad John Mostyn>> I've got to I've got to give my mom aspecial shout out because her love andappreciation of music which is quitesingular in the way that sheshe connects with it has definitely hasbeen imbued in me and and you know thenotion of percussion and the notion ofvocals and everything from Mozartthrough to Burt Bacharach through toAretha Franklin Serge Gainsbourg Simonand Garfunkel so it's almost I I guessthat sometimes I associatedmy dad's side of music with his work and

17:18 with my mom it was listened to at home.Pivotal moments like watching uma Prince concert live on TVin the mid-80s. I know most people whowho end up working in or with music tendto say this, but Ilots of memories likediscovering the Phantom of the Operatape and umand conducting that on the on the coffeetable in the living room on my own.Discovering the Beatles.I now know why I did that, but this thiskind of hunger and thisappetite to just absolutely play analbum the vinyl or a cassette to death.>> Really?>> I'd be that person with my fingershovering over the record and play on thethe chart show on on you know

18:02 BR&B or it was definitely a place Icould construct my own world andand get lost.>> And then the Irish trad music, a mancalled Pat Molloy.>> Yeah, this this is this was through mydad doing work on some of Pat'sinstruments. Um and eventually my sistertook lessons from Pat and we would goaround to Pat's once a week. Pat whowould have been late 60s by that point.He'd be teaching in the in the frontroom and his wife Anne would come outwithwith the teas and the Vicounts and thethe tray of bickies. You know, um and itwas I didn't really appreciate thethe tuition that was going on therebecause of course a lot of Irishtraditional music is taught in reels.

18:44 It's taught without sheet music, withoutnotation. Almost ethnographic.>> For people that don't know, tell us alittle bit about why Pat Molloy was sosuch a significant figure.>> Pat was a umhighly significant figurein um ensuring that traditional Irishmusicand theuh musicianship of that, whether it'sthe bodhrán or the fiddle or thethe whistle or whatever your instrumentthat thoseuh young musicians were taught in theway that he knew, in the way that he'dlearned in Ireland. And there werehundreds, if not thousands,of young musicians and older musiciansthat went through um Pat's kind of

19:29 tutelage. And looking back now, when Ithink, you know, you had a room wherethere were maybe 11, 12-year-olds andthen aa 52-year-old and a I I I couldn't quiteunderstand it. But the notion of thatum a central pillar of Irishcultureand and our how we communicate historyand heritage and storytellingis through is through music. And andPat was that linkfrom one generation to the next.>> The Irish of Birmingham have had a biginfluence ontraditional music in within Britainbecause not only was there Pat Molloy,there was Mickey Kerrs,Drowsy Maggie, Tommy Dempsey, and lots

20:12 of others.>> I mean, there was a there was a reasonthat the the Chieftains and theDubliners had sosuch close ties with Birmingham is, youknow, number one, huge Irish communityhere for the for the bands to play with.And you see that in subsequent acts likeLunasa.Umuh and of course, here we are inNortons, um which is a hugely importantvenue for for Irish music, contemporaryand traditional.But also, that notion of musicianshipand the the kind ofthe genuine and authentic um passing onofumof techniques,>> Yeah.>> of reels, of

20:55 um you know, there'd be some righthoolies across the city every givenweekend.>> Which is also the spirit, isn't it?That's the key to it.>> I think so. It's it's um encapsulating,you know,it might be through through through songor through storytelling. The Irishhave music as a as a hugely importantkind of cornerstone ofof our culture. So, I'm proud that it'sstill, you know, uhis very strong in this city and it'sgreat that venues like Norton still areable to provide that platform for it.>> So, you're this youngster that his musicis everywhere. I was right earlier on.It's a thread, not more than a thread,it's the fulcrum of your life.

21:38 Where did you go to school? Was musicimportant at school?>> I went to school at St. John and Monicain Moseleyum on Trunch Road.Andummy best friends umuh LauraumHello to Laura, Jackie, and Sammy.Um really big influences on my life andand Laura's grandparents, Connie andIvy,as well. Again,living in and and playing in BalsallHeath,you were surrounded by a lot of reggae,early reggae,um lovers rock, uh ska, bluebeat,calypso, um then you'd hear the songs of

22:22 the day, you know, this is the headydays whereblues parties were were still a thing.That kind of notion at school was whereI was really thrust in with lots ofdifferent cultures.>> Yeah. You're growing up with all thesecultures, very Irish background.Let's have a look a bit broader. Whatdid England give to you, do you think?>> St. Paul's nursery, I spent a I spent alot of time there and, you know, withMarkum days like royal weddings,>> Yeah.>> pensioners' day, but I think the notionofmulticulturalism or an integratedcommunity was so embedded in BalsallHeath without us having to label it,without us having tomake a point of how

23:06 important it was.We were in we were just in a bubble.>> That was your England.>> Yeah. And and often often times whenwhen people say, you know, "Oh, what'sthe sound of Birmingham?" There isn'tany one sound of Birmingham. It's thesound of many. The same for the peoples,you know,yes, there are always indigenous peoplesas far as back as we can track.But to me, my Birmingham, my England isis that.>> Yeah.>> It's it's many peoples and manycultures.>> And also what brought my parents here,and their and their families.>> So, let's move on then. Secondaryschool.>> Secondary school.>> Saint Thomas Aquinas, Tommy's, King'sNorton.>> I wasn't the I wasn't thethe best behaved kid. I think, you know,hit my teenage years and went a bit off

23:49 the rails, you know, quite a fewsuspensions and anda lot of trouble withteachers and couple with the police andandyeah, teenage years werewere tough. Like they are for mostteenagers.>> What got you through that tough period?>> Yeah. Mom's always believed in me andI have that, you know, gran and granddadwere I lost my granddad when I was 16.Thankfully, got to spend another coupleof decades with my gran, but I've alwayshad quite a tight family unit.>> You got a sister as well, haven't you?>> My my little sister, yeah. And and youknow, my aunties Deb and Sue. UmBut yeah, we've always been been closeand and definitely more recently, my

24:33 sister Lydia and um my mom. I moved outat 17 and I definitely definitely uhumwent probably too far in one directionbefore I was able to write that course.>> So, let's move on from that then. Whatwas the course, the right course?>> The right course was falling into acouple of jobs where I realized I'dalways drawn, I'd always kind ofumuhbeen doing little bits of creativethings here and there and and doodlingand writing andat school I wasuh I got really high marks in Englishliterature and language and in mediastudies andalways loved the power of the written

25:16 word.So, eventually after kind of working inbars and retailum really coasting I think if I'm if I'mhonestyou know, as a late teens early 20s justkind of finding my way through andsettled on a couple of jobsone of which very earlyI think it was probably 20 years ago nowwas working at the University ofBirmingham's Medical Schoolfor my late great friend David Orum whotook me on as a temp and umI think I was we worked together formaybe 2 years.Had the time of our lives absolutelydrove each other nuts um but it's whereI got to

25:59 realize some of my desire to design, towrite, to I obviously had this creativeuh need which hadn't been necessarilyum had an outlet up until that point.>> For people that are listening wonderingwho David Orum was at he he's probablybest known for bringing you to the forethe photos of a lady called PhyllisNicklin who had worked at the Universityof Birmingham and took wonderful colorphotos of the changing Birmingham of theearly 60s.>> Dave was a music promoter once upon atime.One of one of those guys bit like mereally we we we we did lots of differentjobs but thenDave ran the professional development atthe School of Medicine before then goingon to run

26:40 events for the university wide. We wesadly lost him um to cancer a few yearsback but he'sdefinitelyumsomeone that's umI kind of have to thank foras much I drove him nuts and and viceversa. You know, I uhhe gave me a he gave me a um a break andallowed me some space to try out somethings. And from that point on kind ofended up towards the arts culture. Did aum uh a couple of fairly short-termfixed-term umcontracts, but that's where I started towork around umto to bring those two worlds of music

27:23 and wordstogether and ended up and somebody elsethat wasreally um pivotal was ummy boss at Town Hall and Symphony Hallnow being music Fiona Fraser who againtook a chance on me and reallyintroduced me to a whole new world whichwasapplying my my hunger and my appetitefor writing and for music and avoracious desire to learn because I wasa late adopter because I've beenfloating around and coasting.>> Did you grab it at the right time,though?>> Yeah, and and you know, it was at thatpoint that I I just didn't look back. Ido, you know, an 8 9-hour day at the atthe Symphony Hall or Town Hall. I'd gohome and I'd do another 4 hours offreelance work or one-off projects,

28:08 whether it was copywriting, pressreleases, design work, um campaignplans.And thatwent on for a good 5 10 years. I mean,you could argue it's never stoppedreally, but I I really hadthe bug. But I I worked on hundreds ofprobably in in 8 years, maybe eventhousand uhover a thousand shows,compared events on stage at SymphonyHall, met royalty, you know,worked with some of the biggest names inmusic, met incredible artists like RaviShankar, but and most of all managed toexpand my own musical cultural horizons.>> Yeah.>> And for me up until that point atSymphony Hall was auh a distant unachievable elitist space,

28:52 but being in there and working onprojects and bringingum communities and people like myself inthere was just um an incredibleexperience.>> involved in making it more egalitarian?>> Yeah, I mean that's a tough one becausewherever classical music is concerned,I'd later go on to work with RoyalBirmingham Conservatoire and it'sdefinitely a mired in the in the uhclass system of of the UK.But um that's an important part of of mywork that I didn't really recognizethen, but it's certainly something thatI'm conscious of and I'm selective ofnow. I work with independents.I choose to work less with big brands,particularly with multinationals or with

29:35 >> It's about ethos.>> Yeah.>> Excuse me for interrupting theconversation, but I just wanted to getacross how important it is that everyonetells their story because everyone has alife and everyone has stories to tell.Now you can do this in different ways.You can use your mobile phone. You canget somebody writing down the memories.You can get a collage of photographswith stories around them. Or else ifyou're struggling to get started, wehave a free guide on our website andI've also brought out this book, MyLife, My Story, a guided legacy journal.There's an introduction by me. There'squestions and really prompts for you tothink about that can move that story

30:18 forward and get those memories down.>> So when did you make the jump from a jobat Symphony Hall in town the town hallto becoming an independent?>> Halfway through Symphony Hall, I startedlecturingat the request ofum Dr. Matt Grimes, who's auh another dear friend of mine. Matt hasbeen the course lead on the musicbusiness course at Birmingham CityUniversity foruhquite a few years now.Brought me in as somebody who'd neverbeen to university.I didn't even know what a semester was.Um and there I was stood in front of,you know, 40uh first years talking about myexperience working in music. And that

31:00 led me onto a path where I've lecturedin in music business and thensubsequently in music industry and thenmusic journalism.Umfor coming up to 15 years now. It's alot to um undergrad, postgrad.UmAt the same time, I was also um writingfor for music publications. So,eventually um wrote for Metro newspaper,which at the time was the the most readnewspaper in the UK. I was there goingBirmingham doing their doing theirreviews and previews.I'd always had a hunger for journalism,but had nevergone through um you know, the orthodoxtraditional route of university.

31:43 >> When have you ever done anything theorthodox route, Lyle?>> At this point, at the age that I'm atnow,I would never will.>> Well, and that's coming from somebodywho's never done the orthodox route tosay that.>> I think yeah, I we definitely gravitateto each other from that like, yeah.>> So,you you move on, but it's still all it'sthis wide>> I call it portfolio working these days.>> Portfolio work?>> Yeah, yeah. But again, it wasn't a termwhen I was when I was getting my headaround it in the in the '90s.>> Is there aa difficulty, I'm not saying a problem,but a difficulty in having such aneclectic mix? Or is it something thatyou you you thrive from?>> Well, um I struggled at times because itwas all new to me. I didn't have a

32:27 blueprint. I didn't have a benchmark forit. I didn't know how to submit copy toa to a news editor. I didn't know how toumstructure, you know, when I was firststarting out a comms campaign. And thisis something that I'll>> That's communications.>> Yeah, communications. This is somethingthat I'll always try and pass on toanyone that wants to start out is thateverybody starts somewhere.>> Yeah.>> You don't just wake up one morning andyou've got you've got the knowledge. Ihave my voracious readingappetite to thank for this. You know, III could I'd sit every daywith all of the national newspapers andI'd read them front to back.Um I'd make notes. I'd I'd contact thejournalists. I'd you know, I'd really

33:10 follow trends. I did that for 5 7 years.Um at the same time the digitaljournalism and digital kind of moved tonews online was happening and so I hadthese both world worlds. I had old oldmedia>> Yeah.>> new media and things like Twitter andFacebook and and LinkedIn were cominginto God, I really sound like I'm I'mBut this this is only really, you know,2004 2005. But I happen to be in this inin the blocks ready to go when all ofthis was coalescing.>> And you're young enough to be able totake it on board more quickly thansomebody of my age.>> Well, this was 20 This was 20 years ago.>> Yeah.>> And I put it down to being being a lateadopter.

33:53 It's like I've saved up all of thatbrain capacity.>> But you're running to catch up, aren'tyou?>> I guess so. And it just so happened thatI was there at the confluence of all ofthese new exciting things happening withthe online world. My own um expansioninto music and and carving a a a careerworking in music. I'd go on to topromote shows. I went on to manageartists. I went on to work on someincredible projects in a kind ofconsultancy and freelance capacity.AndI now know, after having a recentdiagnosis, that my capacity for a lot ofof that is is down to umbeing diagnosed with ADHD.And other um um, conditions. And it was

34:36 my way of kind of cramming information.But it was driven by passion. It wasdriven by something I was reallyenthusiastic about.>> What do we meanwhen people cuz we hear the term ADHD alot now, but I think again I'm 70 thisyear. These are terms that we neverheard. Thank you. We didn't hear thesewords, yeah.We didn't hear these terms when I wasgrowing up or in into myyounger days. I never just said I was abit naughty. What What does it mean?>> Uh, attention deficit hyperactivitydisorder is a genetic condition thatcomes from a, um, slightly differentdevelopments of your neurologicalsystem. It means the way that we processcertain dopamine receptorsum, is different from This is the

35:20 difference between neurodiverse orneurotypical.Um, and it means that we have a slightlydifferent cognitive functionto somebody who isn't recognized asADHD. It's a double-edged sword. Itcomes with some really greatsuperpowers, as the kids say. Where Ican do 3 days worth of work in 1 day.There'll be a crash.>> Yeah.>> I am super empathetic.I can talk over people.But then also there comes a a fasterdecline in social battery.Where I just just want to switch offfrom it after after such an intense. So,um,I know now from research that a lot ofpeople that work in music, nighttimeeconomy, hospitality, creative

36:02 industriesbecause it's unconventional workinghours, lots of social contact, verycreative,um, it's self-regulated to some degree,um, that a lot of people that work inthe creative industries or or into yourhospitality regard themselves as beingwithin that, um, attention deficithyperactivity disorder.>> Can I ask you just to explain a fewterms? Again, important for mepersonally and I think for mygeneration. What's dopamine?>> So, dopamine is the chemical that's ourwhole reward system is based around. So,when we go to a live music show or whenwe're in a a bar with our mate Yes. Orwhen we're watching a film and we get

36:46 that release of kind of happiness of ofjoy, that's because we're gettingdopamine releases. The way thatneurodivergentsuh e.g. somebody who has been diagnosedwith ADHD>> Right.>> or other conditions like bipolar, umit's an it's a slightly less regulateddopamine system. So, it's understandinghow that applies to my personal life, myprofessional life, and just how I seethe world.>> Really interesting how you've explainedthat because these are terms that arebanded about a lot today, butI didn't really understand them untilyou've told me.>> Yeah, and and I've always known from mybehavioral traits and my patterns fromwhen I was a kid to how I've

37:30 navigated my my working life to thispoint is I haven't necessarily followed,you know, the orthodox or orwell-trodden route,but I've had some incredible moments andI'vemanaged to produce a body of work in ayou know, some personal and professionalhighlights and achievementsdespite or in spite of those challengesand and it's now something that after arecent diagnosis I'm coming to termswith.>> You said in spite or despite, butactually because of. It's a positive inmany respects.>> Yeah, yeah, you know, we all find ourcoping mechanisms and our and our meansofum of interpreting our our lifeexperiences, our lived experience.

38:13 >> So, let's get up to date now. Lyle beingon PR consultant, media fixer. In otherwords, you arrange interviews, you trywork with TV, newspapers, but there wasthis role as ambassador for NTE, thenighttime economy.>> What's that all about?>> I've been in this role for coming up to3 years. UmI work for and with an organizationcalled the Night Time IndustriesAssociation, who've got tens ofthousands of members up and down the UK.And those members are from the nighttimeeconomy. The nighttime economy is arelatively new termtodescribe the huge ecosystem that iseverything that happens between 6:00p.m. and 6:00 a.m. Now, that could bethe the obvious ones like pubs, like uh

38:57 restaurants, like hotels, but it's alsothe security firms, the caterers,the sound engineers, the the cleaners,the cleaners, the merchandise sellers,the the taxi drivers. It's It's anybodywho makestheir livingum it within within uh at nighttime. Andthat's 25% of the the West Midlands, bythe way. It's It's not a small number.25% of the population.>> Around 320,000 people.>> We've heard a lot in the press over thelast year and more about the problemsfacing the nighttime economy.As the ambassador, what's your role? Andwhat are those problems? And how can yousolve them?>> So, my role as I see it is I lobby, Icampaign, I

39:41 connect, and I work with key agenciesacross thethe city of Birmingham, the region ofthe West Midlands, and across the UK,and in some cases internationallyto umpush for good practice, more investment,um safeguarding. So, when we talk about,you know, safety in the nighttime, orwhen we talk about reducing VAT for forumtickets and alcohol and and all of thesedifferent components that make up theability to pursue a livelihood in thenighttime economy.So, whether that's owning a pub, whetherthat's starting your own umsounds engineering audio-visual company,where you supply speakers and lecterns,

40:27 these companies and businessesare in some cases at um more riskbecause of the lack of um support andunderstanding than perhaps daytimeequivalent. So, retail,uh beauty,um all of the things that we mightconsume in the daytime are wellsupported. You walk into the center ofBirmingham on any given day at 2:00 onSaturday afternoon, you will see thatthere are lots of resourcesand facilities and um systems andinitiatives in placefor uh ensuring that there's a moreeconomic contribution, B, it's safer,that the whole system runs well. We

41:09 don't necessarily have that joined-upapproach for the nighttime economy. So,in places like the US and parts ofEurope, the nighttime economy is like aum a very well-acknowledged andrecognized area of policy,area of business. I mean, it's not justabout those, it's also about socialcohesion. You know, if you think aboutit in the in the most basic terms, manypeople have met the love of their lifeon the dance floor. Or you've made uma whole new set of friendscoming out of the theater.Or those life experiences, all thosemomentsthat happen Or you could be working inin in that in that space and you know,you your colleagues would become yourbest friends. So,

41:52 I think as there's more pressures, bothbig geopolitical forces that we can't doanything about, but then also societalshifts,um government policy, umchallenges,um we're now in a in a place where,particularly in the UK,the nighttime economy is at risk. Well,it's already beingdecimated, reduced. It's not just aboutvenues, it's about jobs, it's aboutskills. It's about intergenerationalbusinesses. You know, somy job as ambassador is to advocate forit, to help find solutions, to connect,you know, join the dots,and ultimately to make sure that we'vegot a night time economy for future

42:36 generations.>> This is a national problem.>> International.>> In Birmingham, it's been exacerbated inthe Digbeth daily 10 areas by ongoingworks for the tramway system.Has that adversely affected the nighttime economy in avibrant dynamic part of Birmingham thatrelies on the creative industries?>> Well, let's say take it up take it up anotch and and talk about theredevelopment of Birmingham. We talkabout big public realm and publicinfrastructure projects like HS2.Um talking about, you know, therelocation of BBC particularly in thisarea.Um but all the other parts of of thecity and other UK cities, we're seeing alot in in Ireland, we're seeing it a lot

43:18 in some of the European um cities inturns.And it's this notion of at the rate ofchange that you see in cities,particularly we're seeing it reallyacutely in in the area that we're sat innow. Further thought, consideration,policies, support has to be givento what happens between 6:00 p.m. and6:00 a.m.>> Yeah.>> We're talking about 2 million workersacross the UK. We're talking about 100billion pounds worth of spend, 18billion of which comes from this region.Um in terms of economic contribution,it's not small fry. We're the fifthbiggest industry in the UK. So, thechallenges is that the city and othercities around the the UK and the worldare being sold on the basis that they'vegot thriving vibrant communities,

44:02 nightlife, creative industries, culturalofferings.Yet the same point as this rate ofchange comes in,the very cultural offers that are beingused as a as a unique selling point arebeing eradicated and slowlyuh decreased. So, theoretically, in 10years' time in Digbeth, when it's fullofnew um developed new residentialdevelopments, they may not beindependent Irishum owned venues. They may not begrassroots music venues. They may not besmall independent suppliers.You know, sothere's a real umcrunch point here where

44:46 wethat's the the royal weum but the policy makers, thepoliticians, the umuh political leadersum really need to factor in and underuh underwrite um a whole generation offuture generation of businesses, ofentrepreneurs,of young musicians that don't go toLondon and the Southeast or Manchesterand the Northwest when they leavecollege here. They stay here becausethere are places to play in. There areeasy um routes for fans to come in andsee, you know, new unsignedum emerging artists, that there is ahealthier infrastructure here because

45:30 it's a place that people want to dobusiness.>> What next then for Lyle B Neal?>> Ooh, a client, I think.>> [laughter]>> I mean, I I I'm really fortunate I getto work with some incredible umpeople, projects, places. Just finishedworking with UB40 on theirum on their tour finale um inBirmingham. I work with Digbeth DiningClub. I work with Nortons and TheAnchor.Um I've worked with the BBC inBirmingham. It's It's I feel veryfortunate, particularly given everythingthat I've described, the journey thatI've come on.The routes I could have gone down, thatI am still I get to choose what I workon if the ethos is right.

46:14 And what is always at the core of all ofthat is if it's independent, if it'sBirmingham, if it's music, I'm all overit. Um andyeah, I think we've come a long way as acity.And I'd really loveto see where be here to see where itgoes next.>> What message would you give perhaps toyoungsters who are thinking of embarkingon a careerin some way to do with the night timeeconomy?>> I have this conversation with uhstudents and graduates graduates quitequite frequently and andit would be don't wait for somebody elseto create it. Don't wait for somebodyelse to magic up that job.Make it yourself.

46:57 Get together, collectivize,find people that have skills that youdon't, bring your skills to the tablewith with people that don't have youryour skill set. Make something happen.Make something amazing. Have faith inyourself. Have faith in the city. We'vebeen through a lot in the last couple ofyears.And it's hard sometimes to haveconviction in the longevity of it.But there's green shoots of growth andpromise and umI think, you know, I'm not a bigbeliever in the self-deprecatingnature of Brummies. I think that that'schanged and I think that civic pride istaking a different shape and a differentform and I think we're going to seeum a lot more hungry and maybe more

47:41 directgenerations taking control of the city'sfuture.>> I certainly hope so. And Loyal, can Ithank you for not only joining me today,but also all the work you do for thecity that we love.>> Thank you, Cub.