Rebecca McKinney

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0:00 She'd lock us in the back and say,"Don't come out until I knock on thedoorb." And she'd stand on the bar andshout. And we said, "No way. He's partof our St. Orin's family. He's going tostay. I'm not there to be feared. I'mthere for them to be their safe person."Welcome to our lives, our stories withme, Carl Chin. And today we're going tobe delving into the life, the story of aremarkable, inspirational, andoutstanding head teacher. And as well asthat, she's a Catholic schoolsinspector. She is Rebecca McKini. Beck,may I call you that?>> You may, Carl.>> Welcome to our lives stories.>> Thank you, Carly. It's a pleasure. Areal pleasure.

0:42 >> Now, let's go back to the verybeginning. What name did you have whenyou were growing up?>> So, it was Beckler. Then, Car>> Beckler hurt. Tell me all about thatname. My dad came over from Ireland whenhe was in his late 20s for work likemany people did in those times. Um, andLaer originates in France. We don't knowa lot of that story. And then my mom'smaiden name is May. So there's a big Mayfamily as well.>> And are they Irish or English?>> Yeah, Irish. So my nan and granddad andboth from Dublin uh came over for work.My granddad came first and then my nancame a little bit later on. So half ofmy mom's family born in Ireland, half inEngland.>> And where about Dublin? Where they from?

1:24 >> Right in the center. So Nan and granddadright in the center of Dublin. Um 10children, six sisters. My mom's got so abig long sort of line of strong women inour family.>> How much has that influenced you, Beck?>> Hugely. Hugely. They're my biggestsupporters. We're a really tight family.Um I'd say we love Cesley.uh when I was younger, lots and lots ofcousins, lots of special times. Theylived in Bullsley Green, they lived inthe back to backs at the very beginning.Um and and that was really important tothem.>> Yeah.>> Where they came from, their communitythere. And then I think with all thecousins and the family, it was tight. Wedidn't have a lot of friends outside of

2:08 that Irish family. Your cousins wereyour best friends and they still are.>> So you're growing up in a big extendedfamily, mostly on your mom's side.mostly on my mom's side. So my dad'sfamily all remained in Ireland. So hecame over. Some of his cousins came. Butwhen he first came over, he lived withan Italian family just by the collegearms.>> Yes.>> Lived in one of the front bedroomsthere. So every time I drive past thaton my way into town, I think of him>> and how he was welcomed into thecommunity there. And he worked in thatpub and then he worked as a tor. And mymom left school as soon as she could.She hated school. Rarely went to school.One of 10 and one of the oldest. She was

2:52 looking after the youngest.>> Yes.>> In the family as you did. Didn't likeschool. Didn't learn a lot there. Andso, yes. Spent a lot of time at homewith a younger family.>> My n was very much the same from anEnglish working-class family. And shewas what in the old Brummy language wascalled our wench.>> Yeah.>> And our wench was your big sister whogave up her childhood to mine thebabbies. Your mom sounds like the samekind of person. Yeah, same kind ofperson. She was um they always said shewas granddad's favorite because therewas a break. So when he came over shewas five, so she was um there was a gapin the family there.>> Yes.>> So she was sort of the apple of his eye,one of his favorites. So she got her ownway a lot. So my um aunties would say

3:35 she doesn't do a lot for herself. Shetells them what to do and them around.Youngest and oldest. So my auntie Bernieum she's sort of the head of the familynow.>> Yeah. coming up to her late 80s, butfiercely strong and very strong lady.And we grew up on stories of each other.So, lots and lots of stories shared,lots of memories. Um, all of thechildren had children.>> Yes.>> And we're still all really close. We allWe all live around Birmingham still.>> What was your mom's name?>> So, my mom's name is Sophie M.>> Do you remember which street she grew upin?>> So, she was in the back to back rightjust not far from where we are now. andand she talks about that time and howhard it was sharing a bed, not having an

4:18 inside toilet and that being importantthat she shares that so other peopleknow um my children know what it waslike for her growing up.>> Did your granddad and your nan talk toyou about Dublin?>> Yeah, they talked about um how it was.So my nan um she lived over a shop umand she had a lovely childhood. Shealways used to say um she was very fondof her brothers and sisters and shetalked very fondly about her parents umand or sort of origins in Italy with herfamily but she didn't know too muchabout where from I think some of thosestories got lost along the way and thenmy granddad more of a tough sort ofupbringing which and he became a bit ofa hard man

5:00 >> did he?>> Yeah.>> Was that difficult for your nan?>> I think difficult for my nan anddifficult for um her sisters. So for me,I have only happy memories of it.>> Yeah.>> But for them growing up, it was toughand they were ruled with sort of verystrict what they could and they couldn'tdo. And for them, um I think that'shelped them be who they are. They're sotight. We're unique and really reallytight sisterhood sort of bonds and eachother's biggest champions. And weweren't allowed to argue when we wereyounger. You don't fall out in the maze.You stick together. and and you solve ittogether and you get on because you'reeach other's.

5:42 >> It's again an interesting comparisonwith my own family, but my nan was avery tough w woman and her and our momhad a very difficult relationship fornearly all of the life together till Nandied. But me and our n were great matesand our mom used to say, "You've had thebest of her." She mellowed like yourgranddad obviously mellow by the timeyou come along. He>> used to call me glamour.>> Did he? He used to call me glamour andhe used to say, "Read this glamour."He'd always test us and with our readingand our writing and education wasmassively important to the family,especially to my mom. So, with me and mysister, I've got one sister, Michelle.Um, it was very important to her that wewent to school and that we absolutely

6:27 tried our best. Never had a day off. Youknow, we'd have to be dying to get a dayoff, Carl. and had that really good sortof strong work ethic from the beginning.>> And that would have come from the factthat she didn't like school that shedidn't have the opportunities that shewanted you to to have.>> 100%. So she always found it umchallenging sometimes um with writingfor example. So she would although she'sextremely intelligent, a really talentedseamstress and designer, it was soimportant to her>> that we learned to read and write andthat it was effortless. Again, there's aa collection there. Our dad was alwaysembarrassed about his spelling andanything he wrote. A car, will you willyou read this through for me? Check I'vegot it right.>> Yeah. Still does it now with textmessages.

7:09 >> It's amazing, isn't it?>> Yes. But yet, she ran a reallysuccessful business with my dad. Theymade curtains and covers and really>> Yeah. So, she's really intelligent inother ways, but she's always felt that,I think.>> Did they go back to Dublin very often?>> Yes. She went for a holiday. She wassent back. She's got a cousin there andthey own the Dublin woolen mills righton the liiffy. So mom would go back andhave this extreme comparison to her lifehere.>> What a difference from going to frombacktoback Birmingham to>> 100%. So her cousin Patricia who iswonderful, still a really close friendof my mom's and she would go to herhouse and she had her own bedroom.>> Oh my goodness.>> And to my mom that was just insanebecause she slept in a bed with about

7:53 six of her siblings. So she would havethis sort of fantasy summer where shewould go home to Patricia's and they'dbe in this bedroom, her and her sisterJune, and they would, you know, berunning on the beach having a whale of atime with her uncle. Um, and she lovedit.>> And was that on your granddad's side?>> Actually on my granddad's side. So hisbrother Merty, he um owned the DublinWoolen Mills with with friends and theyjust had a great life. So he was he wasthe good sort of part.>> Yes. and she she loved him very much. Hehe lived to a ripe old age and then shespent lots of times visiting him.>> Did he have perhaps the gentleness thather old dad didn't have?>> I think so. And I think he knew how

8:37 difficult life was. But then hereprobably sent money Carl>> and helped at Christmas. There's manytime mom said, you know, they got anorange or an apple for Christmas and andhe bought as much as he could but boughtthat soft gentleness and when she wasaway for those summers.>> Did your dad talk about his upbringing?>> My dad did. Yeah. So, my dad um God resthim. My dad died when I was 23.>> Ah,>> but I was absolutely blessed. I don'tfeel like um>> I I don't feel like I feel griefobviously, Carl, and you still do. It'sstill there. But I feel blessed andlucky. So many kids,>> you know, that I work with don't have adad, don't have that role model, don't

9:20 have the love that I had when I waslittle.>> So, you feel honored when you hearstories from other people about theirupbringing. Mine was so solid. I had adad all the time that really loved them.>> Tell me a bit more about him and whatkind of man he was.>> Kind, generous, um, just a great man.People loved him. People loved him. Iremember at his funeral the church beingabsolutely packed and you know it wasscary. I was 23 and you know we weregrieving but I'll never forget how manypeople were there. They were all outsideand it just meant so much like he musthave been so lovely and loved for thatmany people to turn out.

10:02 >> Did he talk about his upbringing much?>> Yeah. So it wasn't easy. Um it wasn'teasy. He had three brothers and asister. they, you know, had a trickytime. Not a lot of money again. Um, butfortunately, one of the jobs that hisdad had was they worked for a big houseand they had a gardener's cottage. So,we talked really, really fondly aboutthat and only recently for my aunt 80th,we went back to that house.>> Oh, really?>> Yeah. And we got to see where they wouldhave um lived at that time. And soalthough he had difficult times, verydifferent to my mom, he was in thecountry and perhaps a little bit easier,a little bit freer.>> Yeah.>> But he never looked back. He wasn't keento go home. So that makes you think, howhappy was it? He loved his mother,

10:46 adored his mother, and um talked abouther very finely. She died when I waslittle, but his father was a tough oldman. And I think he he loved my myselfand my sister again fiercely. So therewas no doubt. Um he took us to swimming,dancing, all of those things,>> which a lot of men didn't do then.>> No, he took us to school. Again,education really important to him. Hewas a tailor, so they worked at home. Umand he had a big cutting table in thegarage and we would sit on the table andrecite our times tables and readingbooks. So right from the very beginning,mom and dad were always there. But

11:29 again, always teaching us. They wereworking but always teaching us.>> Where was this big house in Ireland?>> No, it was uh just outside Dublin inKildair.>> In Gildair.>> Yeah. In Kildair. So beautiful part ofthe world. So he was there and then hecame to London first when he firstdecided to come for work. Always sentmoney home to his mom. Um and then hesettled in Birmingham and then met mymom in a factory. So was engaged tosomebody else car. Was he now?>> Well, she was comforting him and uh whenshe was comforting him, she did such agood job uh that they ended up togetherand they were um very very happilymarried. You know, they had the rows asas you did, but very happily married.And as as I come to my late, you know,

12:15 coming to my 40s now, he died when momwas only 50. So, so young, but she shestill talks about him every day. whenthey got married because he was atailor, he made everything for us toshow a full new suitcase of dresses. Andshe always says to me, he said, "Um, sohave you got any money to, you know, forthis new life?" And she said, "No,>> I I've got my son." And that was it.>> That was enough.>> That was enough. And he looked afterher. Um, and they, like I said, theyworked together. So they built their owncompany and worked together right upuntil he died.>> And what happened to the company then?>> She carried on. Yes. She carried onmaking curtains and you know all sortsof things um for a while and she onlyrecently retired.

12:57 >> Hardworking woman.>> Hardworking woman. Really hardworking.>> What do you think you owe to your momand dad? I know the education side butwhat about perhaps personally andemotionally you owe to them?>> I think that having people that reallybelieve in you can't absolutely championyou no matter what and believe you cando anything.>> Yeah. So they would say, you know, forfor me and my sister, it was what areyou going to be and they wanted us tohave a good life. They thought educationwas key. We both went to grammar school.They, you know, and I'm proud of that.It was hard work at the time. It didn'tcome easy, but they helped us and theypracticed and they cheered us, cheered

13:41 for us. And I just think it it's thatthat kids need to know that someonereally believes in you makes a massivedifference.>> And they'll bat for you if you have to.>> That they're always there for you. Andthere was all there's still always aroom in my mom's house for me. Yeah.>> You know, she's thinking of selling upat the moment, but I know there's thatthing for her that she wants us alwaysto have somewhere.>> Having your strong grandmother, yourstrong mom, that obviously now you'relooking back that's influenced you.Yeah. And also having that long line ofstrong aunts.>> Yes.>> Lots and lots of conversations happeningall at the same time. I'm sure you'refamiliar with that, Carl, in your house.But there's lots and lots of chatting

14:22 going on. And almost to get your pointacross, you're shouting. So, we're soloud when we're together. And the Mayfamily sometimes known as the crazy gangbecause um you're having threeconversations at the same time, butbecause everyone wants to know whateveryone's doing. and and again umloving each other and that's brilliantcelebrating each other.>> And your dad though having two daughtersas having no problems about equality andand and and supporting women that musthave been important for you both aswell.>> Really important. And I think um havinga man who was respectful um wholistened, who who was strict, you know,strict morals, strict boundaries, you're

15:06 not wearing that. I remember boyfriendsringing and he'd say she doesn't livehere, phone down. Um all of that, butalso um working with him. So when I wasuh 10, first job on the market with mydad. So he worked 5 days a week in thecompany and then on the weekend he ran amarket store. Me and my sister bothworked on that market with him. And itwas probably some of the best trainingfor what I do now as anything could be.a market is just such a melting pot ofdifferent communities and and that trusthe had. I had my own money belt when Iwas 10. We used to get up at 5, drive toBronze Grove and it was great crap. Youknow, the jokes we'd play, he'd stick

15:48 two peas to the floor and we'd watchpeople try and kick him and pick them upand it was funny. He was funny. Soalthough we were working, it was greatfun and I loved that time with him. Didyou grow up in a more of an Irishsetting or a mixed Irish Englishsetting?>> Mixed probably with the family later,but very very Irish with my dad. It's abig Irish community.>> How important was religion to them?>> Very important. So for my dad, very veryimportant. There's lots of happymemories where I have of um specialtimes with my dad and and that peace hegot from it. And I think obviously withhim passing away for me maybe that'swhat's kept me going too having thatstrong faith you know till we meet again>> it's not goodbye.

16:31 >> Yeah it's not goodbye.>> So which primary school did you go to?>> So I went to a primary school in SuttonSt. Nicholas. Um great school verysimilar to probably the school I work atnow. One for entry. Everybody kneweverybody. Um lots of Catholic familieslots of community sort of spirit. Um soI went there had um a teacher who Mrs.Walker who I later worked with.>> Really?>> Yeah. Who spotted me from a young age umsaid you're going to be a teacher oneday when I left in year six and um andthen I worked with her. Went to KingEdwards. It was um in Hanssworth. So>> it was a great mixture of differentcommunities

17:14 um all girls. Um so again lots of strongwomen. the head mistress, Miss Inch, wasa very strong woman. Um, and it was, youknow, it was hard. It was hard work. Iwasn't the most academic. You know, Iwasn't the the top set. And it was itwas constantly sort of pushing pushingfor the best.>> Our mom always said to me, we don't mindas long as you do your best.>> Yeah. And I think that was the same forus growing up. Very much so. Very muchtry your best.>> Looking back to that small school, St.Nicholas's and St. Torbins is verysimilar. What influence now looking backdo you think that very tightlyknitschool had on you today as a headteacher?

17:57 >> I think that element of family.>> Yeah.>> For me I loved it. I absolutely lovedprimary school. It was about specialmemories, making friends, um magicalmoments, I suppose, funny stories. Andfor me it's that for me it's every childcoming into our school feeling safeknowing someone you know like thatteacher that I mentioned Christine Mrs.Walker and spotting them. You're goingto be a teacher one day and it's for usspotting those things in children um andchampioning them.>> And then what did you learn from KingEdwards?>> I suppose that's another driving forcein trying to be the best at what you do.It was very academic and you know all

18:40 girls I think sometimes all girlstogether aren't necessarily the bestthings. My aunties were my biggestchampions but actually some girls maybenot you know it was it was hardsometimes in a girl school but um youknow I made friends and and I think it'sit's it's that sort of challenges thatmake you the person you are. And do youthink it was also important in openingyou up to other people of differentbackground?>> If I'd stayed in that Irish Catholicworld, it can be quite insular, can'tit? And when I first went to KingEdwards, it was an eye opener. Wow,where are all these people from? Such a

19:23 different mix of people, but reallyimportant in understanding where you'refrom. For me, Birmingham was like a miniisland, I suppose, and actually it'snot. So it's so important to be withother people, share those interests,share those stories, share thatbackground. Even traveling into Hanza,it was so different for me at that time.And you got the bus on your own. I wasonly 11. My sister was there, but shedidn't want to know me at the time.>> He was the big sister.>> He was the big sister. I was crampingher style. But it was great. It wasgreat fun and and like you said, reallyopening your eyes to differentcommunities. I mean, you're mixing withthe English, you're mixing with Sikhs,Hindus, Muslims, African Caribbean braof all kinds of

20:07 >> all kinds, all kinds of backgrounds.>> And I think it's needed.>> Yeah,>> children need to have that mixture tounderstand where they're from.>> What were your interests outside school,Beck?>> I liked reading. I wasn't that good atsport, but I tried all sorts. I was ajoiner. Tried lots of things. didn'tstick up many, but yeah, loved lovedjust playing out with cousins andfriends.>> What kind of books did you read?>> All sorts of books. All sorts of books.Enie Blight and Little Women. Um, lovedjust reading. Loved, you know, littlefamily holidays that we would have. Itwas a lovely time.>> Were the holidays in England or were youtaken back to Ireland?>> I was taken back to Ireland. Yeah. So,taken back to Ireland. lots of happy

20:48 memories of going to Ireland with familyand and you know having great times andthen big family holidays with the Mayfamilies when I was little. We all wentto Margate and Devon and those sorts ofplaces. But yeah, it was it was specialtime when my mom and dad were off cuzthey worked so hard. But they loved tohave a you know one time a year a familybreak together you know lots of storiesand songs. My dad loved to sing lots ofrebel songs.>> What was his favorite song? Patty on theRailway was one of his favorites and wehad many a time just having having alaugh together. Honestly, such good,happy, funny times.>> And when you went to Ireland, was ityour mom's family that you werevisiting?>> Both. Both. So, we'd um drink a lot of

21:31 tea and eat a lot of sandwiches, butyeah, we'd we'd do both sides of thefamily. Yeah, it was interesting hearingstories again. He'd take us back tolittle places, you know, little cottageswhere they lived and>> tell us stories of him being there. Wewent used to go back to Balmore inKildair and and spend time there.>> Who was still living there that wasclose to your dad?>> So my granddad was still there. A lot ofhis cousins would be there, friends. Soit was important to him that weunderstood that side as well.>> That his roots?>> Yeah, his root.>> And were your mom's family still inDublin?>> Yes, they're still in Dublin. Some ofthem still in Dublin now. So inMalahide. She still visits them now. Westill visit now.>> So you're you're this youngster. You'renot particularly at the top of the tree

22:15 academically. You're not very sporty,but I get the impression you're verydetermined, Beck.>> Determined. Yeah. Um I think so. Allthose little things that make you whoyou are. So, one of my happy memoriesagain, I um worked in my auntie's pub.>> Did you?>> Yeah. So, just again, not too far awayon Adelie Street.>> Yeah. I used to get the bus home fromschool to the pub on a Friday night andI'd work for all the blues matches andall the different games that were on>> the wagon of horses.>> The wagon and horses on Adley Street. Iused to spend a lot of my time there andreally enjoyed it and she passed awaylast year, my auntie Dune, but anotherreally strong woman and again I thinkyou learn a lot when you're a barmaid.>> Yeah.>> Similar things that you that you're

22:57 dealing with people's emotions. Therewere times in the wagon and horses whereJune would lock us in the back when theuh blues away fans would be sort of onthe prowl at those times, you know, inthe in the ' 90s. She'd lock us in theback and say, "Don't come out until Iknock on the doorb." And she'd stand onthe bar and shout, you know, this isabove, get out. And she was tiny. Theywere frightened of her. But she was, youknow, another fierce woman whopassionately believed in her pub. Theyrespected her because she was there,firm. Um, and I think it's another womanthat's helped shape me.>> Did you always want to become a teacher?>> Yes. Right from when I was uh younger,when I was four, I'd line up the teddies

23:41 and do the register and write books andall of that sort of thing. So, alwayswanted to be a teacher. Always. Andthen, yeah, I just I still love it,Cole. I love it. It's hard, you know,it's not without its challenges, but ifyou really believe in your community,believe in the school, you know, itevery day is different.>> So you you leave King Edwards, have younow decided you are going to be ateacher?>> Yeah. So straight away, you know, wentto college at 18, um trained, was in theclassroom then at 21.>> Did you go to Newman?>> No, didn't go to Newman. Went away. Iwent to Chelenham. Oh, you moved awayfrom home.

24:22 >> I moved away from home for a few years.He used to come back when I had nomoney. Um, really funny times with mydad. I'd ring my dad, "Dad, I've got nomoney again." He sent me back with a bagof five peas once, Carl.>> He never did.>> Didn't stop me. I I I still went out.Still went out with a bag of five.>> Counted them all out.>> They're all out on the bar.>> He's trying to teach you a lesson there,wasn't he?>> He was trying to keep me in, but itnever worked.>> How much did that open your eyes up yetagain? I think yet again just thatexperience of being away cuz I was soused to being at home.>> I was able to come home. It wasn't faraway, but living with other people andhearing their stories and theirbackgrounds and actually realizingyou're not that dissimilar, are you?>> No.

25:04 >> You know, there's so many people thatyou can get along with. It was it was agreat place.>> It was a teaching degree that you cameout with.>> Teaching degree with English.>> So that's when you got to start lookingfor the job>> and that's when I bumped into Christine.>> That's amazing. That was serendipity,wasn't it?>> 100%. And honestly, she's still stillthe person I call when I need to.Probably she was around when my dadpassed away. She's um still one of thosepeople who believes in me. If I've got aproblem, I can still ring her and that'smagic.>> How did you come to work with her andwhat was that like? Did you still callher Mrs. Walker?>> Mrs. Walker? Yeah. So, I still do. Itwas um really, you know, a funny storyactually. So, I'd I'd finished college

25:47 training to be a teacher and sadly andthe week before I was going to beinterviewed for another job, uh, someonethrew a bottle at me and it hit me inthe face and it was all stitched up. Ihad a big black eye and I came home to sto my mom's as you do, you know, woundedsoldier. And, um, I thought I can't Ican't interview mom. I can't go for thejobs. And she said, "Okay, bab, youknow, next time, you know, give it agive it a few months." And I happened tobump into Christine in the street andshe said, "Oh my gosh, what's happenedto you?" And I told her the story andshe said, "I've got a job for you. Don'tworry." And she took me to the schoolshe was working at, told the headteacher my story and said, "She's notusually a fighter." And it it hadn'tbeen anything. It wasn't me fighting.

26:31 And um I got the job. So I startedworking with her straight away. Um and Iworked with her for about four years atChrist the King in King Standing. greatschool, great great mixture of peopleand I worked with her yeah for fouryears there and then she moved on to bea head teacher and she said to me you'recoming with me and I said well and shesaid I want you to be the deputy and Iknow you've been teaching 5 years and Imoved with her>> brilliant>> she then became executive head of twoschools and I was one of the youngesthead of schools then>> and that school was in Hamstead solovely school again, St. Marks, and Iloved it. But again, someone who just

27:14 believed in me>> and I'd worked with her. So I'd met herwhen I was, you know, 10>> and she'd remembered you all that.>> She remembered me all that time. When Iworked with her, it was one of the besttimes probably professionally I've had.The school when we got there was, youknow, satisfactory for Offstead. Andwithin 3 years, we turned it around andit was outstanding.>> This is the one in Hamstead.>> Yeah. And it was it was just sheer hardwork, belief, belief in the kids, beliefin the community. She had a great waywith parents. She taught me how to howto reason with parents when they'refighting for their baby.>> Yeah. Yeah.>> And that's really important that youunderstand that cuz parents essentiallyare like your customers, Carl. They're

27:57 just the same as in the wagon, you know,and when they've got a dispute, it'streating them in the right way. sittingthem down, having a cup of tea, them seeyou're human>> and not and not being aggressive ortalking down to people. That's a bigthing, isn't it?>> That's a huge thing for me.>> I think probably because of my mom'sexperiences of school. I remember whenshe would come in for parents evening,my mom would wear, you know, reallydress up.>> Yes.>> Cuz she wanted to feel good enough.Probably it doesn't matter what you'rewearing, you'll always be heard, I hope,at St. Orin's.For me, it's treating people in theright way.>> Now, I'm going to come back to Mrs.Walker and her influence in a moment,but what happened with the bottle?>> One Easter Sunday, went out um was

28:41 having a couple of glasses of wine witha friend and just got caught just doingno thought of a fight, kicked out. It'smade me nervous, Carl. I've always hatefights. Hate fighting now. Um I'd rathergo home.>> Yeah.>> Because of because of that. Yeah. And mysister camepelted down the motor. I was in Celenhamat the time and um watched them stitchup my face. Had a great surgeon, butyeah, it's still um>> still there.>> Still there. Yeah, it was it wasn't anice time. And it just shows wrongplace, wrong time. Caught out,>> but again, probably made me>> stronger.Excuse me for interrupting theconversation, but I just wanted to get

29:24 across how important it is that everyonetells their story because everyone has alife and everyone has stories to tell.Now, you can do this in different ways.You can use your mobile phone. You canget somebody writing down theirmemories. You can get a collage ofphotographs with stories around them. Orelse, if you're struggling to getstarted, we have a free guide on ourwebsite. And I've also brought out thisbook, My Life, My Story, a guided legacyjournal. There's an introduction by me.There's questions and really prompts foryou to think about that can move thatstory forward and get those memoriesdown.>> So you you go to school now, Christ the

30:06 King, King,>> a a tough workingass neighborhood. Manyof the families like my own uncle fromAston originally, Summer.>> Yeah. How did that three years thereaffect you as a teacher?>> Strong people, strong community, reallyproud of it. Really proud of wherethey're from. Um, want the best fortheir kids. The school was incrediblysmart. Uniform was really important. Thefacilities were great. There was a greathead there at the time and we had areally strong strong bond, the teachingstaff. It was a great time. I met mydeputy there, Mrs. Donalan who I workedwith for a little while, Louise. Um, itwas just a great community. It was hard

30:51 some days, but it was it was great.Great place to learn the trade.>> What do you think you learned from Mrs.Walker in particular? There's obviouslya lot. So, let's let's unpick it a bit.>> I think she's from a similar backgroundto me. So big Irish sort of family, butfor her it was about getting the parentson side in the right way. And like Isaid, treating them have everybodydeserves to be treated. So it was that,you know, they'd be shouting on thegate. It' be coming, let's have a cup oftea, let's talk about it. And it it wasthat that actually made me think this isthe right way.>> Yeah.>> I think also that we never said no toanything. So, you know, they'd offer

31:34 some a sports company would offersomething, a museum would offersomething. We'd say yes before thinkingabout how we'd get the kids there, butwe know that it was really importantthat we created those experiences forthem because they might not experienceit anywhere else.>> It strikes me as well that becauseyou're from a workingclass background,that you didn't have a superior approachto moms and dads. Unfortunately, thereare examples in teaching and headteersthat don't know how to talk with workingnot talk to talk with.>> Talk with talk with is really importantand you know I sit on some meetings nowand I you know you're in childprotection meetings or safeguardingmeetings and then the way some people

32:17 speak to others doesn't sit right withme.>> And I just think hang on a minute theseare people to>> Yeah. These are, you know, familiesoften just trying to do their best.Might have lost their way. Might be, youknow, a single parent family or they'restruggling actually meeting them withkindness and connection.>> And you know what also really affectedme talking with you that image of yourmom putting her best clothes on becauseshe wanted to show that she was worthy.>> Yeah. probably unconsciously as well asconsciously, but also because she stillfelt intimidated. Yeah.>> That you don't want that.>> I don't want that. I I just think younever know what someone is going

32:59 through.>> Yeah.>> So, to the mom who's running late, whodrops their kids in late? Why are yousaying why are you late? How's thatgoing to help that woman? How do youknow what she's been through thatmorning? She could have>> lived a million days in those few hours.She could have had a terrible night.Let's just greet them with kindness andwelcome. Welcome. I'm so glad to seeyou.>> Every kid who comes in the door. For me,it's about relationships and connectionand them feeling they belong. I don'twant to be saying, you know, why haven'twhy haven't you brought your homeworkin? Actually, it's not their fault theyhaven't brought their homework in. Itmight not be their mom's fault. It mightnot be their dad's fault. We don't knowwhat's going on. It's not about being

33:42 soft. You know, I get criticism. Oh,you're too soft sometimes. You're tookind. They should be frightened of you,the kids.>> No,>> absolutely not. I'm not there to befeared. I'm there for them to be theirsafe person.>> And you're also a facilitator.>> Yeah.>> Rather than an instructor.>> Yeah. I I think it it's so importantthat we get the relationship right atall levels.>> You said it starts at the door. Well,actually, your school, you start outsidethe door on the pavement. either you orone of the other teachers greeting themoms and dads, the children as they getto school.>> Yeah. So important every day just thathello, how you doing? You look in their

34:24 eyes, you know what sort of day they'vehad, what sort of morning they're goingto have. But that connectedness that weknow every child by name. Even our sitemanager Mark, he knows every child byname. That's what a family school does.And for a child actually that might bethe first greeting they've got or thatfirst smile they've got>> and and that's important car>> and also standing on the pavement whenthe kids come into school and leave itgives moms and dads who might be alittle bit wary of going through thegates to speak with you to be able tohave a little chat with you. Definitelyyou find so much information from beingon that gate and also they might becross about something and actually ifthey've got to book a meeting in threeweeks time to talk to about it it's

35:07 building up and up and actuallysometimes can you just address it thereand then try and put them at at peacefor their day. Parents they're trustingyou with their most important gift>> you know they're giving you theirchildren.>> Yeah. I think you know that that'ssomething big for some parents and Ithink that trust is a two-way street.Our parents need to trust us too but wehave to work really hard to earn that>> and that is the true meaning of theLatin phrase in local co-arenters inplace of the parents>> 100%. And I think you know in this dayand age it is hard. It is hard some ofthose parent relationships. Um but builda you know building that sort of

35:50 connectedness when they see you everyday helps in building thoserelationships them seeing you as a humantoo. One of the most frightening momentsof my life occurred at the I was agrammar school kid like you at oursports day and our dad could neverremember people's names and he'd come tosee me and I'd won this to not 200meters it was 220 yards in them days andwe had a teacher a math teacher who wewere all scared of and his nickname wasToadand what did my old man do? Hello Mr.Toad. [laughter] Well, I just wanted theearth to swallow me up. But watchedagain coming back to that point. We werescared of certain teachers. I remember

36:33 one teacher would throw the blackboardrubber at you, whereasyours is a so much moresensitive and empathetic approach.>> Yeah. And you know, don't get me wrong,I've been criticized for it by theparents. They should be scared of you.you should be, you know, when they cometo your office, they should be scared.But it's really not about that for me. Idon't want them to behave becausethey're in fear of me. I want them tobehave because they know it's the rightthing to do>> and they respect you>> and they respect us and respect oneanother. So for me it's our job is toget them ready to go out into secondaryrespecting one another, respectingdifferent cultures, respecting different

37:16 beliefs, being able to have aconversationand and that's important. That's whatprimary school's about.>> So you're at Christ the King. Yeah.>> Then you go to Hamstead as the youngestdeputy head in Birmingham.>> Yeah.>> How much pressure did you feel?>> A lot. You know, there were there wereolder teachers who didn't like it, Carl.They didn't like me because I was young.I remember sitting in the toilet and umthe being, you know, having a having amoan, having a bit of a and uh wedon't know who she thinks she is in herhigh heels and pink suit. I quite likethis.Um but actually that only made mestronger. I was there for the kids. Iwas there to support Christine in in in

37:59 her mission in what she was doing inturning the school around. And actuallyit it wasn't about it being a teachersclub. It was about what can we do toprovide the best for these kids. And forme it's always the kids.>> So at the same time as you want tocreate this much more caringenvironment, you've also got to makesure that you get the balance right withacademic achievement. Not only academicbut sport and children, all the otherthings.>> Yeah. Everything. And I think it's it'ssaying yes. You know, I've got a greatteam of staff. Great team of staff. Butone of the things they'll say to me is,"Oh, everything's always changingbecause you say yes to this and yes tothat and yes to the other. And I'm

38:41 always going to say yes if it's going tobe something exciting for the children,something they might not haveexperienced. Let's make it work." AndI've got a great team around me who willhelp make it work.>> Is it more difficult? Now I feel it fromthe outside and knowing lots of teachersthat it is increasingly difficult forteachers because of the bureaucracyattached to teaching today.>> 100% there's so much paperwork, so muchrisk assessments, so many um so manyfactors you have to take into account.The government want this standard foryou know every single child despitetheir starting points. Yes, every singlechild needs to learn to read, write,count before they leave us.>> But actually, we need to think about the

39:26 way that we're doing it and actually thecurriculum that goes behind it and whatdo we really want to teach the children.It it's difficult difficult times withlack of funding. It's hard>> and it's like a straight jacket in manyrespects. Again, looking from theoutside that you want to bring them upas citizens.>> Yeah. and is giving people not just tofit into a a national curriculumstraight jacket.>> Yeah. And I think you know for us it'simportant we're teaching them thehistory of Birmingham. It's not on thenational curriculum is it? But actuallythe skills are there but we need toteach them what's real for them.>> Yeah.>> So that they go away like I said leavingus responsible creative you know the thearts are really important to us. um

40:10 poetryso much that actually can be lost whenyou're straight jacketed into thinkingI've got to achieve this and I know I'vegot offstead coming and I know that I'mgoing to be and marked for my resultsacross the board and yes they areimportant but it's that careful balance>> and it's a difficult balance to attainisn't it that>> yeah it is with you know less staff lessfunding it it's hard>> now you've always worked in Catholicschools so how important is therelationship with the local parish ishchurch and the local priests.>> We're lucky, you know, where we are inKings Heath, really supportive. It'svery important in my job, you know, notall parishes alike. The Kings Heath onethat we're in, it can be a challenge tothe other schools. Um, but it's very

40:54 important that community, parents beingthe first educators, the parish beingpart of that, being part of thecommunity. I presume that when you weregrowing up, a a school that was aCatholic school was overwhelmingly Irishdescent.>> Yeah.>> It's changing now, isn't it, that you'regetting a wider mixture of people. Youmight have Muslim kids, might have Hinduseek kids, Church of England kids,atheist families.>> Yeah, it's a melting pot, you know, butit's so important for some of our Muslimfamilies that they come to a Catholicschool because of the shared values. Andthat's what they tell me. They don'twant to choose a non-faith school. Theywant to choose a faith school becausethey see the shared families, see those

41:38 shared values, see the larger families.They see that it's a family school. Um,you know, we had a great experience thisyear with Lent and Ramadan being at thesame time and all the similaritiesthere. It was magical for some of ourMuslim families to come in and speakabout the the similarities. Yeah. thedifferences but also the similaritiesand actually that it's about giving,it's about fasting, it's about prayingand that's shared.>> Do you still think there is a place forfaith schools in modern society? I dowhen we think about the values therespect um so definitely and I thinkwhen you look at the Catholic socialteaching principles of this you know

42:20 this term we've been looking at optionfor the poor and vulnerable actually allschools should be doing that>> yes>> for the most vulnerable and we'retalking across the board vulnerable it'snot just the poor it's it's vulnerableand actually all schools should be doingthat and the next one we're looking atis stewardship so it's about yes how wecaring for God's earth, but actually ourown footprint. What are we leavingbehind here? And that's important forall schools. They definitely a place forit.>> And it's not that isn't necessarilyabout faith. It's about humanity.>> It's about humanity and it's about beinga better person.>> You've got these shields like shields upon the railings outside the school. One,solidarity. Tell me about some of those.>> That's the Catholic social teaching

43:03 principles again. So solidarity. So whenwe're talking to the children, we mightbe looking at, you know, a footballmatch, how they showing solidarity,standing against racism. Let's havethose real conversations with thechildren and actually them relating itback to the Bible and those gospelteaching that's being there. But it'sabout them going out hopefully makingthose informed choices when they'reolder. There's a lot of hate in theworld at the moment and it's importantwe address it in the right way with ouryoung people to make a change. There's alot of hate, there's a lot of anger,there's a lot of alienation. People feelleft out.>> Definitely. And I think it's how can wemove things for these change makers.>> Where do you see Rebecca McKini going?>> Oh, I don't know, Carl. I don't know.

43:48 It's a hard question. You know, I'm amom. I'm a wife. I'm a daughter. There'slots, you know, in my family life. Umbut but I think it is about making achange. I've always believed in in notmoaning about it and doing somethingabout it. Um, you know, I moan aboutoffstead. Actually,it's like being a tax inspector, but whynot work there if you want to make achange?>> Yes.>> I I moan about policy in Birmingham. Whynot work there if you want to make achange?>> So, I think it,>> you know, I I can't stay at St. Orbin'sforever. I love it. It's my family andthat's a big pull. You know, like Isaid, the children are brilliant, the

44:31 staff, the families, and every day isdifferent. I'm not finished there yet,but I do think I can't keep moaningwithout doing something about it.>> Yeah, I think that's an important pointyou make, cuz going get back to mychildhood, you know, you had a headteacher that was perhaps a head teacherfor 20 25 years in one school, but I Ipresume there is a need to to sometimesmove on for freshness.>> Yeah, for freshness. And I think, youknow, I'm lucky in my role as aninspector for Catholic schools. I get togo out, look at other settings, learnfrom them. Um, it's not about judgingthem, it was about learning from themand helping them to improve. And I lovethat side of my work. I spent some yearstraveling and doing some training for aphonics company. So, I got to experienceeducation all over the place and that

45:15 was really important for my own growth.>> And the school is always changing. Oneof the things we need to talk about thatyou have a new classroom downstairs.>> I do. Yes. um with the help of one ofthe parents, CLA, um we we were toldthat we needed to move a child onbecause we didn't have the facilitiesfor him. Um and we said, "No way. He'spart of our St. Orbin's family. Um he'sgoing to stay." So, we ratted our brainsand thought of different ways of helpinghim to stay. And we um decided go big orgo home, we said. And we uh raised moneyfor a new classroom. People said we weremad. you're never going to do it. Um,but we believed in it.>> You have to overcome a lot of obstacles.

45:57 One, funding, but two, Bridg, you werelooking at a a a lift upstairs, but thatwasn't possible, was it?>> No, it wasn't. We've got a trickybuilding and there were all sorts ofoptions and all different people aroundthe table, but the community reallyhelped. We were supported so well by somany um and and yeah, we we just decidedactually in the long run it would bebetter for Vinnie, who's the littlechap, to um have a new classroom builtdownstairs.>> And it's working.>> It's working. He's in it and it'sworking.>> As a a head teacher, you're a leader.You're an enabler, a facilitator. Butyou also have to be adaptable.>> Definitely. You have to be adaptable.

46:41 Definitely. And in everything, you needto be adaptable. I think my own childrenhave taught me that, you know, they'reall different. I've got two boys and agirl. Um, all very, very different. Andyou have to be adaptable to, you neverknow what's around the corner. I neverwould have thought that we'd need to dothat for Vinnie. You never know what'sgoing to happen. But I think, you know,the educational climate's changing. It'sbecoming more difficult. So, you'rehaving to adapt all the time. What wouldyou say to a a younger bet today at theage of 18 looking to start a career as ateacher?>> Do it. You know, so many people saydon't. It's hard. You know, teachersaren't respected anymore. But I thinkyou can build that respect. I think, youknow, do it. We need good teachers. Um

47:26 hopefully,you know, more I wouldn't have believedI could be a teacher when I was little.I played at it. But actually havingthose people that believed in me and Imet my husband when I was 15 um you knowtold him I wanted to be a teacher thenwe didn't get married when I was 15. Wedid, you know, we were on and off, onand off and and it took me to bemarrying someone else, Carl, andeventually we got together and um andhe's always believed in me andchampioned my career and been behind me.And I think it it's important. We needgood teachers. So, yes, it's hard, butlike I said, every day is different.Every day can be fun. It's what you make

48:09 it.>> Did your dad live to see you graduate?>> He did. He did. he saw me graduate andum the first thing when you get thatsign on your school and it said you knowRebecca head teacher I couldn't wait totell him I remember going to the graveand telling him all about me and I thinkhaving him has given me that drive>> I always want to make him proud>> and and it's hard when you don't um youknow you don't get to share that withhim but I think that's part of me tryingto be better and do better for theschool and do better for the communityhaving that drive.>> But your mom and your aunties have seenit.>> Yes, they have.

48:50 >> And I bet they're very proud.>> They are. They are. They say that andyou know they're lovely about it andtheyknow they are proud and you know that'sreally special to me.>> Well, you've had me filling up heretalking about your dad going to hisgraveside and chatting with him. But Iwant to say thank you for joining metoday. I want to thank you for yourservice because it is a service that youare giving and for your vocation.>> Oh, thank you. Cub>> Rebecca McKini, head teacherextraordinary.