Stacey Barnfield

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0:00 started creating one of these kind ofcolor swatches, color palettes ofBirmingham references and it wentabsolutely bonkers. People all over theworld when your back's against the wall,when you're in the corner, I think we'requite ingenious people. We can have allthe grand Colmore architecture, but whenit comes to eating like a a king for apound>> Mr. Egg's place.Welcome to our lives and stories andtoday the life and the stories thatwe're going to be in covering are of amulti-talented man, a journalist, deputyeditor, editor, media consultant,photographer and a color paleter. Youmight be wondering what a color paleter

0:43 is. I just made the name up, but we'llfind it out later. The man in questionis Stacey Barnfield. Stacey, thank youfor joining me today.>> Pleasure. Thank you for inviting me.Lovely to see you, Carl.>> Did you like that intro?>> Loved it. That's the first time I'veever been called a color paleter, butthat will now be on my business card, so>> I mean, I mean, I might just make itFrench sounding like a color paleter.We've got lots to talk about. Let's goback to the beginning. Tell me a bitabout your upbringing, your mom and dad,your influences of your family.>> Born at Marston Green Maternity as manyof us around these part this part of theworld were. I grew up in Chelmsley Wood.Moved across to Yardleyin 1980. Um it's near the U tree. Ifanybody knows that that part of the city

1:27 side down by by the Swan. Um reallyhappy childhood there.I'd be on my BMX with friends and andand at school and stuff. My sister camealong, so a nice kind of family unitwith me mom and dad. Um dad worked atvarious things in the city. Mom was anurse. Yeah, just a normal kind of Brumupbringing. Then I went toSolihull College. Did graphic design andmedia stuff and from there kind of gotinto newspapers and and the areas that Iwork in now.>> Before we move on to that, how old wereyou when you left Chelmsley Wood?>> I would have been seven.>> Many memories of that?>> Limited memories really. I remember welived in a on the third floor of a towerblock right next to the school, so I wasable to to wander out to school and

2:10 and my mom would wave me from thebalcony, that kind of thing. So just a anice kind of warm family upbringingthere really. It really kind of lots offamily wider family around there aswell.It's just a great part of the city side.>> And there is a broad there are peoplethat Chelmsley Wood, Smiths Wood, KingsHeath, people from outside pick on thoseareas and it's unfair in my opinion.>> Absolutely it is and that's why I waskeen to to start by saying that that'swhere I'm from and proud of that. I youknow,why should you see it any other wayreally? It's kind of umit's a great part of the city part ofthe city side. People do well forthemselves, you know, work hard, soyeah, really enjoyed it there. Reallyreally good time there. Moved across toumYardley because of a growing family,just needed a bit more space really in a

2:52 more traditional family house, so HallGreen Road, here we came.>> I know it very well.>> It loved it round there and I my paperround I deliveredthe the mail and the post, so Idelivered at the the news agents that mydad did as well. So you grew up aroundthere. Flight was lifein Yardley.Just lovely parts, just traditional oldschool parts of Birmingham.>> How much of an influence in looking backnow were your mom and dad on you?>> Massive.Really big influence.Hard work ethic, simple as that. Youknow, if you want something, if you wantto have a family holiday, you got towork for it. You know,credit cards or anything like that. Wedidn't do anything that you know, sillywith finances.

3:35 So I think that is always whenever I'masked this looking back, it's just thatkind of approach to just you got to workhard really.Umwhatever the city is at the moment,either the car factories or anythinglike that or you know, whatever youthink you might work move into. Umjust hard work is is what is is at theheart of it and and yeah, I I learned alot through that.>> I was fortunate to meet your dad. Hebrought him on one of me tours and hestruck me as a an old school Brummie,very proud to be from Birmingham.>> Massively. And he was super proud tomeet you and it it it it ituhis one of the last nights that I hadwith my dad before he became ill. Um andthe things that you do about telling thethe the the the story of the city, its

4:17 history and kind of uh all all all yourareas of workuh a massive to people like my dad. Hetakes enormous pride umin his area. And when he used to readyour Brummie Joe magazine and you know,any reference to Yardley or the Swan,the big pub or you know, the clubs andstuff that he'd be with his mates, thatreally resonated.>> Yeah. Yeah.>> He he's one of many Brummies, I think,who just took pride in their area andand how it's changed.>> And for me, it's been through writing toget those stories. You've done it in indifferent ways, writing, yes, but alsophotography and the color palette, whichwe'll come to in a little while. You Yousaid you went to Solihull Collegestudying media studies. Was that always

5:00 something that you wanted to get into,Stacey?>> More graphics and arts than thannewspapers to start with. So, I went toSolihull to study graphic design um andcompleted that course. Uhwe would If you couldn't find work, youwere offered to go the chance to go backand do more of a broad media studiescourse that might open up otheropportunities.>> So, a few of us did that and while I wasdoing that, an opportunity came up toeither go go on to universityor uh a local job came up on theSolihull News um as a runner, as a dog'sbody, as an It was called editorialassistant, but pretty much fetchingprintouts, uhwaxingold school bromide paper to go onto thestone, which is an old newspaper

5:42 production area.>> Explain about the stone cuz you'd havebeen the last generation who would havesaw her>> Yeah, so very kind of um strict uh rolesand responsibilities. Like a factoryalmost that pieced the newspapertogether, the stone area. These bigboards where a page was on a board onits on itself. Ummy job was to have what which a headlineor a bit of the story printed out onspecial thick bromide paper, run itthrough a waxing machine,so it kind of fed the back of it to giveit like a gluey uh element, then take itover to the stone and just place itthere to be cut by somebody else.Were you ever tied you go the extra stepand

6:23 >> Yeah.>> have a go at cutting it yourself? Therewere strict rules and responsibilities.Fascinatingplace, you know, uhhundreds of people>> Yeah.>> doing what would be now on a laptop>> Yeah.>> on on the side of us. So, you know,really kind of and I think you might beright there. I was probably the the tailend of that whole production process.But I loved every second of it. And whathappened there,you know, I knew my job. I was I wastold to do this and that. I had a strictkind of um role there.But a valuable role.And what happened I think through that,I got to know every bit ofwhen I joined that company, it was beingovertaken by the post the wider post andmail group. So, I had a kind of a aconnection then to the the three mainnewspapers, the the mail, the post, and

7:07 Sunday Mercury.Um and I got to know every bit of thebusinessthrough not through kind of, you know,being nosy, just by having to deliver aletter to an MD, having to go and seethe van drivers>> Yeah.>> who would rib me about my name orsomething like that. Uh you know, everyI got to know every bit of the business.I'd go and pick the papers off the uhthe presses. Uh I knew journalists. Iknew the photographers.And that really without realizingreally kind of stood me in good stead tostart climbing the and getting intowriting there and being trained andumI spent more time on the Solihull Newsthan in my first editor of sorts. Therewas a guy called John Connor, a lovelyman. Um, proper old school editor.

7:51 Uh, you know,ways of working were slightly differentthen.Uh, but really lovely guy. Uh, and he Ithink he saw something in me kind of hebecame a bit of a mentor, put me onevery training course he could. He hethought, "Okay, you know, this guy'scommitted. He He wants to have a go atthis." Um, so lots of different trainingcourses with PA, with otherorganizations to get all my kind ofThe Press Association. You know, wegot down to London, to Victoria, totheir offices and do some of theirtraining courses and do did all the bitsand bobs. And slowly I was kind ofgetting moreingrained in the newspaper business andI became a sub-editor.Um,down table sub-editing, which is kind ofplaying around with a journalist's story

8:33 to make sure it fits, that it'slegally sound. Yes, I'm not a lawyer,but obviously if you spot something inthere you're not sure about, get thecompany lawyers involved. One of many ona down table sub's desk. The the nextphase was a a page designer, headlinewriter. So, writtennumerous, too many puns and dodgyheadlines and some of them are terrible,some of them are all right, maybe.Uh, yeah, so I started to kind of workthrough the newspaper business on theweekly papers.Then I went went across to SundayMercury.Then I took a few years out of thenewspapers to join a newly formedmagazines division.Um, the Post & Mail and its wider parentgroup saw some potential in producing

9:17 magazines for others. You know, we hadall the skills, the resources that ifyou as an organizationuh, wanted a magazine, we could takethat on for you. So,we did some work there. We launched amagazine uh, called City Living, whichwas all aboutthe new boom in Birmingham city centerwith the residential. This was the late'90s, early 2000s. The city waschanging. You know, on the back ofBrindley Place, the new Bullring center.The new Bullring was was on its way,Selfridges and stuff. So, lots of peoplewere moving into the city center. So, welaunched a magazine toum to accommodate that. With you know,the advertising that comes with it, theresidential advertising. That that's thethere's money to be made in in that. So,they So, they launched that.So, I did that for a few years. Um lovedthat. Really great fun.

10:01 But then a good friend of of you andmine, Steve Dyson,>> Yes.>> gave me a call and asked if you want tocome back onto the Mail. So, I joinedthe Mail. I went back and then startedworking through the Mail. Assistanteditorand then deputy editor of the Mail.>> Before we go into that into detail, wasit literally a stone in the printingarea?>> I don't think it was actually. I thinkit's just alike an easel almost.>> Right.>> Maybe there was a stone at some point.Yeah, that a more knowledgeablenewspaper historians mightpull me up on this. I don't think therewould have been I don't know really. Idon't It was just like you know whenyou're going intolike a draftsman's boardwith enough space for a big tabloidboard itself or a

10:43 broadsheet or a tabloid size.Whether there was a stone one you know,in the old old hot metal days, maybethat that was something>> And you've dropped yourself in it there,the name Stacy. You said the van driversused to take the rise out of you.Come on, tell me about the name.>> what? I've never got to the bottom ofit. UmI've asked me mom and dad uhStacy Keach, the actor,>> Yes.>> name at the time that I arrived in theearly 70s.Uh I think there's a connection to him.Um whether I just wanted something adifferent um me sister's called Emma.Quite if she's watching this, um hi areyou well? Uhso, they didn't kind of continue thethis the crazy name thing with mesister. I don't know, but it's been it's

11:26 been a source of uh confusion and funforfor as long as I've been working really.And lots of assumptions there. I'm afemale.>> [laughter]>> It's It's It's more stuff at the Oxford.>> And I'm not going to get let you getaway with this one. You said headlines.Give me one or two if you can rememberthat stand out for you.>> Oh, let me think. Umgetting an interesting time when Ijoined the Sunday Mercury was literallythe I I wasn't working this weekend. Thethe weekend after wasDiana's death. So, we had to write andno puns, obviously. Yeah, this is aboutpuns.Kind of powerful, you know, really kindof storytelling headlines. So, theystick out more than the the throwawaykind of puns, maybe.

12:08 That was an interesting time. I can'tremember any specific puns that haveumThere's one and I don't explain this.This is my magazine. I think it's stillgoing. Press Gazette, which is whatjournalists would read to see what theyou know, the the latest moves and andand appointments are. They had aheadline of the week umcompetition. Somebody submitted one ofmine,which was Charge of the Lights Brigade,which was about a new charge forlighting in Solihull or something. Iforget the story. Yeah, so that onesticks out because it was in PressGazette. Um but Christ, I wrote too manyof those.I used to write news bills as well.You know, the bills that you used to seeoutside a newsagent or in the old kiosk

12:50 in the city center. That was a reallykind of challenging, a really kind offun. We used to do loads of those. Idon't know if they do them anymore.>> No, they used to be outside every papershop, didn't they?>> Everywhere. Everywhere. Some werewritten by hand, some when I you know,started doing them, they were written ondesktop computer. Um you'd have fourlines, usually with one word per line.So, you've got to try and capture thestory. Somebody walking past, get theirattention to to go and buy the mail orwhatever.And that would that felt like aMaybe that taught me a lot about the thethe use of words the tightness and thekind of every word counting. And if youstruggled, you'd put the word rumpus inthere. Rumpus captures anything or youknow, trouble or something like that oryou know, that So that that was a kindof skill that I quite enjoyed. We used

13:34 to do so many of those. That was a bigpart of my job. Um but yeah, headlinewriting is good fun.>> I understand what you're saying therebecause through writing for the mailit made my style much tighter, moresuccinct, more focused becauseyou tend to have some art backgrounds,certainly when I started university,you'd have I'd write sentences with 10lines long with three semicolons, onecolon, two brackets. Not as bad as that,but thinking that longer sentences werebetter, but you become much sharper andmore focused, don't you, writing withnewspapers?>> You really do. If you got to make everyword count. Um you've only got, youknow, the intro, the introduction to thestory really has to work cuz peoplewon't they'll read on, they'll readsomething else. Uh they'll either put

14:17 the paper down and then do somethingelse or they'll find another page toread. So, you know, thatit's it's a real skill and I worked withsomeUm I don't think I was ever the world'sbest writer, but you know, I I had a goat it, but I worked with some amazingwriters. Um some no longer with us,sadly. Um a guy called RichardWilliamson.>> Yes.>> Uhyou might have known from the SundayMercury. Truly gifted leader and featurewriter. Um you know, you you could youpart of my job was to go and ask a aleader writer to to put together 300words on the the issue of the day uhthat we'd feature in the newspaper.And you'd go and speak to someone likeRichard and say, "Okay, we're talkingtoday aboutNHS or or you know, something'shappening in the city center."

14:59 Within an hour it's come back with300 words of kind of opinion and it'sjust an absolute joy.>> Yeah.>> To have that skill, to just be able tokind of rattle that out. Before the daysof Googling and and searching forsomebody's kind of viewpoints or youknow, this is him saying that and thenlots of others uh in in doing the samething.An incredible skill, you know, thatthose the power of those words and thekind of the the ability. I hope thatwhere you know, wherever newspapers andtheir formats and whatever comes next,umvideo and and and that they maintainthat that kind of training to offersomebody that skill. Cuz it is a it's animportant skill, storytelling.>> So you you're coming into

15:42 be being a journalist and a featurewriterreally without planning any of this. Itjust happened.>> It it Yes, yeah. Um I think I always hadan interest in newspapers and writing.I'd do film reviews and and stuff likethat. So less kind of umhard news journalism, but more kind ofthe fluffy colorful stuff maybe. I wasalways interested in that. And I thinkwhen the opportunity came up toto get into a business that that mightget somewhere of along those lines. Ithought, "Yeah, yeah, why not have a goat this? It it it's a I I was I'minterested in always been interested inin words and and and and their power andthe and the photography that comes withit as well. So um we've talked a lotabout words, but um something I talk a

16:25 lot about now through my current workand also when I was ona newspaperis the power of that image that goeswith the story. Yeah. Brilliantphotography is at the heart of so muchthat um we try to do. And I've workedwith some amazing photographers, many ofwhom I'm still in touch with and I tryto work with now. Uh so photography hasalways been a big part of it.I just think it's a it'sI I've only ever worked on localnewspapers. Um I had a brief spell onthe on the Mirror for a a a sideproject, but always said I think it'sthat for me, the thing that interests memost is thatlocal storytellingrecording the city's history. Umthe things that you do really well that

17:07 you know, just it's important that it'sdocumented.>> Yeah.>> Something happened, good or bad. It'simportant that for future generations,however they find itthat it's there that on X date thishappened. So, you know, I'd hate to bein a world wherewe don't we don't like have that kind ofability toto record in a professional way what isgoing on.>> You mentioned Steve Dyson earlier on.Just explain to everybody who Steve isand why he was important to to you.>> Good friend, great editor,just similarly passionate aboutnewspapers and their success and and andtheir survival in in some instances. So,yeah, it's just a good friend reallywho's always been um

17:50 a mentor of sorts. Uh and when he calleduh to ask me to go back onto the mailthe decision was was large part of Steveasking me really to to work with Steve.Uhyou know, and it would would be goodfun. Uh so, yeah, he's he's a goodold-school newspaper editor inBirmingham.>> And what was the new role that Steveoffered you at the mail?>> Assistant editor to helpthem relaunch the mail. Um it waschanging from the Evening Mail to theBirmingham Mail.>> Yeah.>> With a red top mustardthe logo the mustard on the the frontpage. So, changing its kind ofpositioning a little bit. Um but alsochanging its whole kind of um productionschedule. It's going to be an overnightuh newspaper as opposed to the evening

18:33 of the Evening Mail. Uh you know,changing times. It is what it is. Umso, we had to do a lot of work there tochange that, you know, how it how astory is reflected.If you are still buying it in theevening but you're reading somethingthat was printed or written last night.So, that kind of work a a lot of work todo there.Uh and lots of design work that camewith that. We redesigned the paper. Umand he just asked me to help out withthat really.>> It was a massive change becausefor my generation, I'm 69 and above, youcould have three or four differenteditions of the Evening Mail. We werebookmakers and you get differenteditions with the stop press withdifferent racing results as it wentalong the day.

19:16 >> It's incredible. I just think weyou know we we can be kind of nostalgicabout a newspaper, but ultimately if ifit's not going to be picked up at 5:00in the evening because everybody's gottheir news on the their phones as aspeople were then.You know what what does a an accountantdo there there there you know therea really good example of this is theSports Argus.What an extraordinary operation thatwas.To have that.>> Explain that operation.>> Sports Argus pink Saturday pink sportsfootball led newspaper. I used to workSaturdays as a runner, but you kind ofmake space for the Argus people to comein and do their work. The writers, theproduction teams and the photographers.

19:59 The editors were sent out to Blues, toVilla, to wherever to to get matchreports.They'd file a half-time match reportinto the office. So a copy taker wouldbe right with you typing that in.Full-time report, maybe other bits andbobs in between, quotes from themanager, all those kind of things. Andthen you'd have back out on the street.So they'd be doing all the work thenbehind the scenes in the old compositorsroom that I've just mentioned. They'd bedoing all the work behind the scenes tohave the Sports Argus as a as anewspaper in the pubs by the timesomebody coming from St. Andrew's wouldbe back in town. Or and I just find thatincredible.>> It was because we must explain toyounger viewers that football was alwaysplayed at 3:00 on a Saturday. There wasa few night matches, but overwhelmingly

20:42 it was 3:00 on a Saturday. They werefinished really by quarter to five.>> Yeah.>> And then the Argus was back on thestreets what within an hour?>> About an hour I'd say. I don't I don't Ican't remember the exact times, but itmust have been about an hour cuz you'dgo back in you'd be the you'd be in apub in town. And one of the the sellerswould be walking around with you knowyou'd sit down with your pintsand look at the results, look at thetables. All the all the extraordinary.>> I'm from the generation again that wouldgo to the paper shopand queue>> Yeah.>> to wait for the Argus fan to come.And when we were first married, I justsaid to me wife, I just couldn't get theArgus. I should clock this to the edge.I've got the Argus and popped in thecollege arms for a quick couple of pintson the way>> That's all part of the package, shall wesay?

21:24 But no, that's it's incredible, but youknow, that that that reading that Argus,other than maybe spotting it on thevideo printer as you walk past Dixons intown or something in the window.>> You definitely would be your>> That's right.>> opportunity to see who who you're upagainst and and how they got on thatday.>> And the Argus was not only for the bigfootball clubs like Villa, Blues, it wasit was its school boys.>> Yeah, grassroots.>> Grassroots, amateur football, boxing,all sports, wasn't it? It was a renownedsporting paper.>> Yeah, incredible operation. Kind ofreally impressive stuff. But as soon assomebody gets those results on theirphone,that's it.>> It's gone.>> It's gone. You couldn't continue really.>> So, you start as assistant editor. How

22:07 does your career progress then, Stacey?>> The opportunity to become deputy editorof the Mail came up about 2 years sincewe were about 2010, I think. 2009-10.Um became deputy editor of the Mail justthrough applying for that role.Uh and and took that.Incredibly proud of that. Really lovedthat. So, the deputy editor's role waspretty much being in the newsroom andand kind of getting the paper done eachday.The the editor was obviously had a partin that, but it's slightly differentdynamic. So, you're kind of I was reallyI was This is the thing that I enjoyedmost about was being really hands-on.You know, still writing headlines, stilldoing bits and bobs, and yeah, reallyenjoyed that. So, deputy editor of theMailuh for a couple of years. Um

22:50 and then the opportunity againthrough application for the posteditors. So, the the the Birmingham Postand Mail was three newspapers, threemain uh, titles, a of otherweekly publications, but the three werethe uh, Birmingham Mail, BirminghamPost, and the Sunday Mercury.>> Now, what was the difference between thethree in their approach and readership?>> The Sunday Mercury, uh, is a Sundaypaper, obviously, um, much moreMidlands-wide. Has to work much harderwithoff-diary exclusives.For a Sunday paper philosophy, you know,you you you it's your one, uh,hit that week to get some really goodstuff. Exposés, kind of reallyinteresting stories.

23:34 Um, so that was the Sunday Mercury. TheMail, the the kind of the thethe the the beast of the the the newsoperation at the Post and Mail whenwe're at Colmore Circus, uh, and thenFort Dunlop. Um,day-to-day news in the city, you know,civic affairs, crime, uh, and other justkeep that kind of ticking.>> And an overwhelmingly working class andlower-middle class readership.>> Definitely. Yeah, very much a workingclass readership. Um,uh, factory gates,>> Yeah.>> uh, in Longbridge used to selluh,bundles of papers as they're walkingout. So, yeah, very much a workingclass, catching up with the football aswell on back of the pa- paper. Um,but very much working class. And thePost,

24:16 much more civic, political, uh, culturepublication. Uh,uh, yeah, so it's slightly differenttake on things as well. That became aweekly newspaper in the in the time thatI was there. Uh, so three kind of verydistinctbetween the three main titles, verydistinct different audiences.>> When I first started writing for theMail back in mid-90s, it was just under200,000 a night being sold. The Mail andthe Express and Star, I think,Manchester Evening News were all almostneck and neck>> Yeah.>> for sales. By the time that you becomedeputy editor,what were they selling?>> I think it was a bit about 50 or 60,000.So, it was, you know, it was a decliningfigure. We used to have the big boardsabove our desks in the the the main uh,

24:59 newsroom at Post and Mail that had thosefigures on there.Uh that that they were updated eachweek. They the mail'suh average daily average I think itwould have been or something like that.And yeah, when I started in the mid-90s,incredible figures, hundreds ofthousands. Wow.>> And this emphasizes the drop in salesemphasizes the change in media.>> Absolutely. Change in media both interms of how people consume their news,um how advertisers is>> Yeah.>> operate, you know, at the heart of allthis there has to be a healthyadvertising operation. Uh so, as soon asthings like Rightmove came along,when how people find their jobs, uh howthat changed with online searches andother ways of finding work. Um so,

25:42 Thursday used to be jobs day in themail. Used to be that thick the paperdid.>> Loads of pages.>> 40 pages of jobs.>> And that went.>> All that went. So, as soon asadvertising departments lose thatguaranteed income really. Umyou know, the first place uh thatyou would have gone to look for a jobthen would have been the mail on aThursday. As soon as that changed, yougo on your phone or on your your laptopor whatever to look online. That justkind of killed that whole industry.>> By contrast, the Post was always moreseen as a business, a civic newspaper.Didn't sell as many copies, but seems tohave the prestige.>> Yeah, prestige came with that. Um reallypowerful brand. Umyou can call it call it that. Reallykind of historic.Uh you know, it's it's played its partover the years in lots of city

26:25 affairs. Joseph Chamberlain's day, um itit it kind of led the charge for uhmayoral role. Its first uh editor, uhits owners then were very much at theheart ofuh what's going on the city. John Feeneyinvested in the uh Gabriel and Museumand Art Gallery. They kind of it'salways had that kind of more politicaland business-mindedum kind of ethos really. And and and Iwas keen to maintain that when it when Iuh took the opportunity to to join thepost. Uh yeah, they really importantuh powerful couple of words are theBirmingham Post. It always felt likethat from being within the business nothaving worked onthe paper up until then.Uh it was kind of admired its kind of

27:09 position really like for that.>> And it was the paper that was picked upin Parliament by parliamentarians aboutvolume. To be honest, they should havebeen picking up the mail as well becausethat would have told them what we werethinking.>> you're right. I think you're absolutelyright. There's a there's an argument forreading all of the any whatever the theyou know the publication is or the paperis that you know to get a grip on allthe things that going on in the city. Uhbut the post I think there was a figurethat for um every printed copy it wasread by eight people.>> Which is phenomenal.>> Yeah, so it it you know it didn't printas many it never had as as big a anaudience in terms of the print numbers,but the people seeing it were the theright people. The you know thepoliticians and in in London andBirmingham where I would have really

27:51 said yeah.>> As editor, you are facing challengingtimes. It's gone from a daily>> Daily to a weekly uh a few years priorto me joining.In my latter days on the mail and thenjoining the Birmingham Post, like manynewspapers, we had to we had to change.We had to adapt to changing times. Uhand the biggest change there was tocreate a web first digital firstpublishing and news operation. Where thethe mail would have broken somethingfirst or the post or whichever you knowwhich are every of the city's affairsthat had to go online first really.Breaking news, daily affairs, onlinefirst. It has to do that. You couldalways keep to one side and lovely pieceof long form writing uh for a column orsomething like that for print and you

28:34 know really give the print uhpaper some life still.But when it comes to breaking news, uhan awful incident that might havehappened in the city, it's got to goonline first because others will do.There are there there are there otherpeople kind ofstarting to launch their own kind ofnews operations and things like this andthat that you know, they're on theground and they're taking pictures andthey're putting it out there. So, you'vegot to be first with those kind ofthings really. So, we we had to changeour whole way of workingumthe whole newsroom cultureuh trying to explain to a you know,really proud journalist proud of theirwork that it might not be on the frontof the the paper tomorrow.They might they might not get a bylinebut it's going to go online that you

29:17 know, did did they feel the same kind oflevel of importance to it? It's it'skind of fleeting online. So, there's notalways that that that that kind of umlongevity whereas you see something inprint you know, they they're kind ofcarrying it around and there's a bit ofpride there. So, it's different kind offeeling and and and a vibe towards storywhen it's online or print. But we had todo it. You know, they they massivelychanging times.>> Difficult though for you because you'vegrown up right at the end of the old way>> Yeah.>> with lots of sales and now it's changingdrastically.>> Yeah. Changing drastically and quickly.>> Yes.>> Really quickly. We don't have time touh to consider this for 6 months. We'vegot to start really changing how wework. Anda lot you know, alongside all this is

30:01 social media.Where does social media sit within this?We we launched our Twitter accounts. Welaunched ouruh Facebook accounts around this time aswell.You know, that's where people arefinding their news now.They won't go to the local news agentsthat I was just referencing there withthe news and stuff. People are findingsocial media as theirplatform for finding news. You know,they So, but social media is only isonly a tool. It's only It's not thevoice. We've got to be the voice in inWe've got to be in that mix. And that'sfleeting. That's a a noisy world that wehad to be part of as well.So, how do you kind of put repositionthese trusted historic old newspaperbrands in this really kind of colorful

30:47 different world of social, you know,we're we're we're quite traditionalmaybe in in the names and you know, theBirmingham Post, it's part of the thecity'sfabric and and and and this kind ofthinking. So, how do we change and howdo we evolve? It's not easy. It's reallynot easy. And and and part of that aswell, the challenge is that we're partof a massive nationwide publishingcompany.So, everything has to change, butgetting a big company to change, youknow, the old oil tanker analogy. Howhow do you do that quickly? So, toughtough challenges.>> What led you to leave your role aseditor of the post?>> UmI'd done it for 2 and 1/2, 3 years. UmAnd I was always for some time I'd been

31:31 thinking there's going to come my age Isuppose is one of one of the things.Um wanting to try something on my ownwith my own company or my own kind ofway of of working. Um two young kids, umtwo boys that wasn't seeing that muchof.Uh long days on the papers, umoccasional weekends, not not too manyweekends, but long days. So, sometimesI'd leave in the morning when myyoungestumas a baby, I wouldn't see him for andyou know, you you think where am I goinghere, you know, what what's I'm I'm notgetting any younger. Umso, I think that that that's combinationof things coming together.I just wanted to try something differentreally. UmNo desperation. I was so proud of what Idid. No, you know, I loved that place.

32:16 Loved working at Fort Dunlop and all thepeople I got to know through the many ofwhom are still friends. Um so, no no, Iyou know, I hate this whole digitalworld. No none of that at all.Uh just wanting to try somethingdifferent really. Um and kind of andwhat I always wanted to do was wherepossiblecontinue the whole storytellingthing that I'd kind of without realizingdeveloped through the newspapers. Youknow, the the the where is the story inthe redevelopment of Dick Burrows orreally trying to kind ofcontinue that in a more kind ofcommercialmindset. So, you know, we weset up a PR and marketing company calledEdwin Ellis.

32:58 >> I you set up shop with your wife?>> Set up with the wife, Catherine. Yeah.>> Who is an outstanding>> journalist>> in her own right.>> Great feature writer, uh won awards forit. Um so, we set that up.Trying to kind of with any clients thatwe'd we'd work with, um many of whom westill work with now, 10 years on.Trying to put our mi- ourselves in themindset of journalists and to to explainto a client that, you know, we don'tjust write we won't just churn out apress release. We we'll think how howthis story What is the story here?Who's going to read this and what iswhat is the message we're trying to getget across?>> And how you can get attention for thestory.>> How you can get attention. And alsoknowing who might use the story. So,still kind of some good contacts at thethe newspapers and in broadcast media as

33:42 well.Um trying to kind ofuse that that kind of experience,really. I I felt it was quite important.And just have some fun with it as well.And, you know, trying to uh enjoyworking for myself. And>> Big jump though, Stacy, for both you andCatherine.>> Yeah.>> Because you're leaving full-time jobs.>> Yeah.>> You're setting up a new company with thekids young.>> Yeah.>> It's a It's a massive job.>> a massive job.But, I don't know, really. I just I'dseen others leave before me.Um similar nervousness.Um but, I think when you're not so muchwhen in a kind of anegative way, when your back's againstthe wall, when you're in the corner,I think we're quite ingenious people andwe'll get by. We'll be all right.

34:24 >> that's our background again.>> Yeah, I think so.>> We were brought up. Put us in a corner,we have to come out fighting.>> Yeah. And we'll find work. We'll we'llbe okay. So, it was very much that, butabsolutely it's a huge gamble. Got twoyoung kids whoneeded feeding.>> And it's been a success.Was it an overnight success or did youtake time?>> We picked up some clients quite quickly,which was great, and a few of them umare still with us now and they're goodfriends. So, that kind of that retainedwork propped us up and kept us going andand gave me the ability to find a bit oftime to be a bit more creative withthings.Um so, overnight success maybe a fewmonths in. Took a little break when whenwhen we left when I left umSo, yeah,

35:07 things started to to come in. I thinkI think the timing was gooduh for me to do this to try it on myown. So, that that kind of helped Ithink a little bit. If I'd have left ittoo late maybeum you know, it's quite a competitiveworld out there when it comes toPR, marketing, and all the things that Ido. UmSo, maybe things things came together atthe right time. But yeah, it did didquite well.>> One of the organizations you're deeplyinvolved with is Colmore BID, thebusiness improvement district for theColmore area. Talk to me a little bitabout that if you will.>> Yeah, Colmore and Central BID are thetwo main city center BIDs. Greatorganizations, really trying to do goodfor the cityum on behalf of businesses in the city.Involved in lots of public realm

35:49 projects, cleaning up the city center.Umart projects.Security around the city center.>> Yeah.>> Uh there's [clears throat] some kind ofnitty-gritty stuff as well that they'regetting involved in. Um and I reallyadmire that. So, yeah, we work with themuh on various kind of PR, comms, andbits and bobs. Uh I know I produceColmore Life magazine for Colmore, whichis is all that really. It's talkingabout all the events that are coming upin the city.Uh trying to get people coming intotown.UmTelling the businesses who are in townwhat's going on and and you know, who'skind of um working on that area.>> Joining things up in the middle.>> Joining things up, yeah. Yeah, whichcould easily not be joined up. So, yeah,the BIDs kind of do a lot of that thatthat they work with the council, but

36:33 they do a lot of things that justbrightening up the the city centers andBirmingham's not alone. There are othercities that have BIDs and and businessimprovement districts and>> So, they charge a fee to the localbusinesses.>> to the to a business to to be a part ofit, to be a member, and then you getthese services for that.>> And you mentioned comms.Is that communications?>> Communications, yeah, I should say that.So, yeah, writing umI hate this word, content. It's It's aIt's a horrible kind of word that thatis occasionally. So, writing,photography, video, umyeah, various things really. And then wemight put that into the magazine or itmight go elsewhere on the website,through social media, various things.Helped Central BID last year with the

37:15 Ozzy Osbourne exhibition that's now atthe museum and art gallery.The Black Sabbath mural for all theactivity and and then the the thingsthat were going on in the city connectedto the That's the beginning gig at VillaPark. Um so, if you if you know, if weneed to spread the word, promotionalstuff,they might ask me to help out and dothose kind of things.>> So, this is the main source of incomenow for you and Cathleen.>> Yeah. Yeah, still the the main business,yeah.>> But, through that, it's allowed you tofollow another passion of yours,photography.>> Yeah. Love photography and its historyand how it can be kind ofjust something that you can do with yourphone, you know, if you if you want totake pictures,you can be artsy, you can be with the

37:58 family or whatever. Uh so, yeah, I'vealways enjoyed photography and then Ithink that comes from working with greatphotographers.>> Yeah.>> When I was at the papers, I used to sitnext to a couple of them um and next tothe picture desk.And I'd be sent out to something prettygrim maybe with a film camera or youknow, and they'd come back withan incredible image that that we'd use.So, I was always kind of learning fromhow photography can work and it and itspower. So, I just enjoy being out withthe camera and and it's part of it. Andwhat one thing is with the the power ofmarketing,I'll always stress to a clientthat a good image is just as powerfulas the words that we might write, youknow, particularly for social media. Uhyou know, we've got to stop somebody's

38:40 phone. We we've got to get that image onthere. So, yeah, so I talk a lot aboutphotography as part of what we do.Um and I just enjoy it really. It's likecapturing different parts of the city.>> And you capture them not only for work,>> Yeah.>> but to really tell a story about modernBirmingham, don't you?>> Yeah. I do. Yeah, exactly that. Um IlikeI I things like ghost signs which peopledo a lot of where they picture an oldstreet shop store sign that has beencovered up and unearthed or somethinglike that. I you know, anything I can dothat might just kind of add something alittle bit of aa story to it, I'll do that. So, whenthey did when the Apple store moved tothe Midland Bank building on the cornerof New Street and Corporation Street,you know, the grand building that it is.At the back of there,

39:23 there's an old um sign there. So, wewent and got some pictures of that. So,things like that really. I love itthrough photography. I love comparingnow and then scenes.>> Yeah.>> So, I did a recent thing for Colmorewhere we put together someum scenes uh from an old illustration ora painting or an early photograph toParadise Street by the Town Hall. Umwe took a I took a picture todaycontemporary picture of the tram goingdown there. We found an old illustrationof a horse and cart. And but there arestill some of the buildings the TownHall's obviously there.>> Queen's College.>> Queen's College is there. So, I lovethings like that. Trying to get in theright place to towhere that would have been drawn or

40:04 photographed. I love that.>> I'm deeply impressed by yourphotographs on LinkedIn. You have to putup an evocative morning shot or a lateafternoon shot. Have you thought ofbringing a to out in your photographs?>> Oh, no, I haven't.>> Well, I'm going to make you an offer nowif you do, I'll write the forward if youwant.>> Oh, you're a star. I'd love Let's Let'shave a talk about that. I'd love to do>> I think you should.>> Well, I had one of my photographs ondisplay at the RBSA in the jewelryquarter last year.>> Birmingham Society of Art.>> Yeah, itwhich is an amazing gallery. Um, youknow, royal in its title. It's It's umand they displayed one of my photographslast year and that meant the world tome. Uhcuz I got off the It was one It's atMoor Street station.So, when I get my train in from SouthBirmingham way umas I was coming into Moor Street, got

40:48 this this skyline aheadand this orange glow of the It was awinter morning, so it was creating thisstrange kind of atmospheric feeling. So,I jumped off the train instead of snow.Turn I just I just had my camera with meand took this picture.Uh and it just it itAnd I I think I think some of the greatphotographers would say it doesn'tmatter what kit you've got or whatever.Yeah, it's just if you spot something,you know, it's about being there. So, Ithink that that worked on that occasion.Uh so, that Yeah, a book maybe one day.Let's Let's have a look at that, mate.>> You should becausewhat you're capturing is theredevelopment, the changeof Birmingham, but also you're grabbinginto itaspects of

41:29 the Birmingham I grew up in>> Yeah.>> that you grew up in that our moms anddads, your mom and dad, my mom and dadgrew up in.>> You're spot on. Yeah, and I think it'simportant that you know, anything we cando to kind of capture thatum to to really kind of record thechanging city cuz it you know, you don'tIt'll be great when it's finished sayingabout Birmingham and you know, there'san element of that at times that whenwill it all be right? Here we go. We'reWe're done. And then there's a there's awriter photographer, Phyllis Nicklin whoI think University of Birminghamlecturer>> Yeah, she was and she took photographsjust for herself.>> Just for herself. Streets, car parkthere, a factory in the jewelry quarter,Hockley, Harborne. And she might havehad people looking at her at the timethinking, "What are you doing? What areyou taking a picture of there?" Youknow, but you look at this incrediblearchive now that a a a friend no longer

42:15 with us, Dave Arum, who um>> Did a brilliant job.>> Did a brilliant job and amazing uh forBrum Pic and for the you know. Now,going through these just quite routinestreet scenes and stuff. So, sheprobably take it I don't know if sheknew at the time what she was what shewas capturing here, how important itmight be. And various projects sincethen have kind of been fed by thisarchive. And I love that uh you know,thatit's that they're just normal streets inthe '50s and '60s. Now, let's come tothe color. Yeah.>> Color palette. And the color palette.>> Color palette.>> In Brum, like, where's it come from?How's it developed?>> I wish I knew. Umit's it's what we've just spoken aboutreally, I suppose, but telling thisstory through colors.Simple as that, I suppose, is it's an

42:59 old school, so theif you go to B&Q you're doing thehallway up or the kitchen, you're goingto get some of those little card>> Yeah.>> paint swatches of different levels ofmagnolia or something like that. So, thelook of it is one of those, but each ofthose colorsis a local reference.So, Jewellery Quarter Gold the BullBronze uh Sabbath Black>> Yeah.>> it's a a local reference. Shortly afterlockdown, umso, this is 5 6 years ago nowuh I've always been playing around withthe the laptop with typography. I'vealways been interested in how color andtype works together.Uh I started creating one of these kindof color swatches, color palettesof Birmingham references.

43:42 It goes from Old Bus Creamto a black of Black Sabbath. So, sixcolors all about Birmingham things.Umnot really with any kind of thinking,oh, wow, there's, you know, I've got abusiness here or whatever. You know, I Idon't didn't think of anything likethat.And I shared that on my social media.Cuz I share like design things and otherpeople's work and and you know, my ownstuff as well. And it went absolutelybonkers.People all over the world, some guy didone in New Zealand for a local a seriesof gardens that are out there nearby.So, we had lots of greens on his. UmAlabama uh Birmingham Alabama got intouch. We want one for BirminghamAlabama uh Alabama. Um

44:27 Loads of places, and then lots of peoplesaying, "Where can we buy this as aprint?"We want this as a print to put in aframe or, you know, on the wall or a mugor what. Um and then other people sayingfor other areas, "Can you do the samefor us, and can we have the prints forthat?" Uh so, it really kind of quicklywent a bit crazy. So, that's when Ithought, "Okay, well, maybe there is akind of a design business in this. Theremight be something I could do." And it'squite It's not that difficult these daysto set up a a basic e-commerce a websitethat you could sell things through.>> So, we started that process and set itup as a company. UmAnd there are now around 70 differentlocations.UmThere are themed ones, so likegardening, coffee or tea. There's a

45:10 Birmingham City one.Uh Birmingham City one>> I presume you haven't done a Villa oneyet.>> It's on the list. I I'll get to it.I've ordered you to that and help me outwith that one. Uh and it was on theBlues program cover.>> Yeah.>> Which is amazing.>> As a Blues fan, that's fabulous.>> Loved to bits. I love that It was in theclub shop for a bit as well.So, that was amazing. So, that wasprobably one of the highlights. The theamazing thing that I've loved for it allfrom it all since these four or fiveyears I've known themis museums from across the countrygetting in touchto ask if they cuz it's a piece of aregistered design, so I kind of it'sprotected in some way. Um so, they'veasked if they can come up with thesuggestions for Liverpool, for example,or for York, orum Northumberland. Uh We've got one

45:53 coming out soon in in the southwest. Umif their curators and theirconservationists and their experts inthe area, if they can have a go atcoming up with the references, then Iput it together and they sell it intheir their shops and stuff. And that'samazing. So, it's kind of reallycaptured the imagination of people inthe area. Um and the one we did inLeamington, there's oneunder the as you walk through Leamingtonstation into the town.Uh it's huge walk around of the thethe tracks of the station.And there are two color palettes therefor Leamington. All of the references onthere were through a public vote.So, Warwick District Council asked themember people of Leamington and widerWarwickshire, um what does Leamington

46:36 mean to you? And and we had all thesesuggestions. People really engaged withit, came up with ideas for parks, pubs,um local people,uh you know, a a work of art that theylove or a piece of public art. And thenI put it together and then it's now ondisplay. So, when you get that kind oflocal buying, it's the same forRedditch. There's one in Redditch. UmAnd what you what you learn from thesefrom these public votes for themis people have got pride in their areas,pride in the industry. So, Redditch'sneedles and the motorbikes and stufflike that. Umthere's a real pride that comes through.It's not all people knocking it's sayingit's rubbish and stuff like that. Youget a bit of that, you know, frompeople trying to be clever and funny,

47:20 but people are really proud of theirareas, you know.>> The Liverpool one, very unusual colorone of them is. Tell us about that.>> The on theLiverpool color palette, which is thesix colors um that were suggested by theexperts in Liverpool, amazing bunch,it'd been lovely to work with them. Uhwheelie bin purple because Liverpool'swheelie bins are purple.>> Bad god.>> And they're purple and I only learnedthis recently after being told that theywere purple,is that it's a combination of the red ofLiverpool and blue of Everton.>> Right.>> They didn't want to distinguish betweenthe two colors of the clubs.>> And for you, each one of these you arehaving to learn about the place thatyou're involved with.>> Yeah, and I and that and and that'ssomething as well that when I've done a

48:01 when I've worked in an area thatI don't know as well as anybody in thatarea, you know, I never would do anddon't try and and pretend that I do.I'll always call on somebody who knowsthe area like the back of their hand.So, I've got a friend who lives inGlasgow,um used to work at the Post and Mail. Uhshe's a great writer. She helped steerthe Glasgow color palette. So, yeah,I'll always work with people in theknow, you know, and who kind of get it.And the lovely thing about the theLiverpool color palette, it's on sale inthe Museum of Liverpool gift shop,which is right next door to the Beatlesmuseum and it's gift shop as well.The cruise ships come into Liverpoolfrom people around the worldplunder the the gift shops in both, buyall these color palettes and Beatlesmemorabilia, take it back on the cruise

48:45 and andgo sailing around the world. And whoknows where it is at the moment?>> The Birmingham and Alabama one.What did you do to find out about thecolors of there?>> We haven't done that one yet. That'sthat'sto be announced. That's coming up atsome point.Yeah, you'll find out more about it atsome point.>> A steel city, wasn't it? The iron.>> I don't know a great deal about it. Iknow um Joe Lycett and his work with hisUS show, he's researched a lot and andhis um production team.Quite similarcities in some ways, lots of kind ofindustry and Birmingham UK and Alabama.Uh so>> Work in progress.>> It's a work in progress. That'll be outsoon.>> Andyou've got the Explain what you guysgave me, which I was delighted with, a

49:26 little present. Explain what that is.>> Well, another little one of my projects,lots of things umI like to keep busy with is somethingcalled Draw My City.>> Yeah.>> And this is me umthrough a website, through variouspieces of public art around, mostly inBirmingham, um sketches really oflandmarks of Birmingham,umsome type of graphic designs, so thatthe Rotunda has a the the the strengthyou know, on the word rotunda.But mostly my my kind of sketch sketchart. So, all the landmarks that youyou'd expect, the cathedral, rotunda,museum and art gallery, Old Joe at theuniversity. All these kind of kind ofdrawings.Um and what I did recently, there arefour or five of those

50:10 that I had a little play with, had themon screen,and made them like magazine covers inthe style of The New Yorker magazine.>> Yeah.>> Which to magazine designers andphotographers and people who work in inthe industry, it's the kind of the it'sit's up there as the one>> That's your picture of>> They they commission illustrations forevery front cover.Invest so much They're like works ofart. Every every cover's like a work ofart with an illustrator or a painter oran artist orAnd I don't think they do photography. Ithink it's mostly illustrations.So, I just thought I'd have a littleplay with that. It's a very recognizableword, The New Yorker. It's the sametypeface. It has been for 100 years.And just called it The Brumme, using thesame typeface. And again, I shared that

50:54 and it went a bit crazy online. So, Istarted selling those. Um so, you've gota pack of The Brumme printsfeaturing Ludgate Hill in the JewelleryQuarter, umOozells Square, the Ikon Gallery inBrindley Place, Old Joe, museum and artgallery, and The Grand Hotel as TheBrumme.>> They're brilliant.>> mate.>> I'm going to send you off now, though.The next lot you're going to do is moreworking class.>> Yes. Well, I Okay, how about this then?So, the most Since I've I've launchedSince I launched Draw My City 5 yearsago,the two most popular artworks>> Mr. Egg>> Yeah.>> and Snobs nightclub. So, you know, therewe go. They're down to earth.

51:36 >> Much more egalitarian.>> Exactly that. Exactly that. So, thatshows you that, you know, we can haveall the grand Colmore architecture, butwhen it comes to a eating like a a kingfor a pound and it's Mr.>> Ellis.>> Exactly, yeah.>> Stace, it's been a great pleasurespeaking with you.If people want to find out more aboutEdwin Ellis and your media role, feelfree to find out more about the ColorPallet, or about the Brummie,what should they do?>> Well, crikey, well, there's three orfour different websites. I'm on LinkedInas Stacey Barnfield as me, so that, youknow, send a message maybe. Uh, Draw MyCity is drawmycity.co.uk, that's thesketches. Uh, the Color Pallet Company.com is the Color Pallet stuff, they'reentirely different things. Um, and the

52:20 the PR and marketing and magazinepublishing and that side of things uh,is Edwin Ellis Creative Media.com.>> I started up by saying I was delightedto welcome you as a journalist, a deputyeditor, an editor, a media consultant,and a color palleteer. I'm going to addsomething else to that now.A drawer, a sketcher, and anentrepreneur. Oh, I'll take that.>> I like that.>> What rubbish would I have made?>> Good to see you, mate. God bless you.Thank you so much.